THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JESUS' TEACHINGS & PAUL'S

Mary

Has anyone noticed that alot of Paul's ideas that are part of the scriptures contrast directly with Jesus'??

Paul said about fornicators, idolaters, etc. that they should be booted out of the congregation and should be "treated as a person of the nation, or a tax collector" and that no one should "even say a greeting to him." Funnily enough, this is the same attitute the Pharisees had.

But who did Jesus eat with? Prostitutes, people of the nations and tax collectors............HEL-LOOOO..........yes, Paul had his own ideas on how the "Christian" congregation should run, and unfortunately, alot of his own personal ideas as well as the general culture of the day influenced him greatly in his writings. Paul's attitute towards women was extremely chauvanistic by todays standards and has been greatly responsible for the horrific treatment of wives at the hands of their "Christian" husbands for the last 1900 years, all endorsed by the scriptures.

On the other hand, Jesus treated women as equals and would never have condoned their abuse, or even their silence in the congregation like Paul did. Let's not forget that Paul (along with the other apostles) didn't like the children bothering Jesus and tried shooing them away. Did Jesus condone this? Absolutely not. In fact, he told the apostles to stop doing this, and that THEY should become like these children.

Can you think of any other teachings that Paul had that differed from Jesus'? I'm doing a paper on it in one of my classes and I want to use as many examples as possible.

rocketman

Mary, that promises to be an interesting paper.

Just one thing, it wasn't Paul , but rather Peter and other apostles, who tried to shoo away the kids who were coming to Jesus.

As far as your topic, it certainly does seem as though Paul differs from Christ in several area of teaching. Of course, the WTS and probably other religions counter by saying it's all the "inspired" word of God. But I've wondered, as you have, why for example Jesus ate with the tax collectors and "sinners". Note too that it was the Pharisees, as you said, that had a probelm with him doing so. Interestingly, Paul was a Pharisee before his conversion. One might think such Pharisaic attitudes still influenced his view.

Pistoff

I have felt for the last few years that Paul and Jesus were in direct contrast; made to choose, I go with what Jesus said and take Paul's letters for what they were: his opinion, one of many in a christian fellowship, but not the final or ultimate.

nightwarrior

Very Interesting - I will have Mr NW post back to you (he is out at the mo) but his brother has some really interesting points on Paul - very thought provoking. Along the lines of your thoughts - now I am having to rack my brain to remember what we have spoken about with NW's brother. One thing - he never agreed with the 'body of older men' in Jerusalem - he seemed to be a law unto himself. He caused great controversy amongst the early christians. As I say I will have NW post back. Mrs NW

cowhand

I agree with Pistoff. Jesus was the messiah - Paul founded the Christian religion and got it organized, for better or worse. Certainly to the extent that JWs are Christian they seem to owe more to paul than to Jesus.

Billygoat

This will prove to be a very interesting thread to read. I am anxious to hear some other comments. But just a few points I might share...

Paul founded the Christian religion and got it organized, for better or worse.

Paul did not "found" the Christian religion. Jesus was the one who started everything. Thus it is called CHRISTianity and not PAULianity. (This is meant to be funny! ) Paul did have a significant role in the organization of the religion AFTER the death of Christ, as Paul did not become a Christian until years AFTER Jesus death. He never personally knew Christ as his Messiah.

Interestingly, Paul was a Pharisee before his conversion. One might think such Pharisaic attitudes still influenced his view.

I think this is an extremely good point!

SwordOfJah

You're overlooking something very obvious in your criticism of Paul's letters:

"Paul said about fornicators, idolaters, etc. that they should be booted out of the congregation and should be "treated as a person of the nation, or a tax collector" and that no one should "even say a greeting to him." "

Obivously Paul was referring to those that continued their sinning ways although they were brothers, in other words, they were not repentant of their wrongdoing.

"But who did Jesus eat with? Prostitutes, people of the nations and tax collectors"

Obviously Jesus could analyze their hearts. You really think that he would accept a Prostitute if after he tought her, she would go out of the home and continue prostituting herself. Jesus accepted only those that were repentant and changed their ways. For example, look at the apostle Matthew. Also former prostitutes changed their ways after accepting Jesus' teaching since the Bible also mentions that some of them would follow Jesus as he tought multitudes.

In conclusion, Paul's letters ARE in harmony with the teaching Jesus Christ.

no one

"But to the others I say, yes, I, not the Lord: If any brother has an unbelieving wife, and yet she is agreeable to dwelling with him, let him not leave her:... A wife is bound during all the time her husband is alive. But if after her husband should fall asleep [in death], she is free to be married to whom she wants, only in [the] Lord. But she is happier if she remains as she is, according to my opinion. I certainly think I have God's spirit." 1Cor. 7:12, 39-40

Can't say I necessarily disagree with these statements, but I take them as stated; Paul's, not God's, opinions. And to me, I would think a person would know if he had God's spirit.

elumn8_2

I think your on to something good Mary

I had the same thought when I was looking at those scriptures

1Corinthians 5:13

" while God judges those outside? "Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves." implying that men have the ablility to judge ones inside the congregation. He said also in 1 Corinthians 5:11-13 " Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man.". This would shun a person to repent.

. Jesus said in Mathew 7:1 "Stop judging that YOU may not be judged; for with what judgment YOU are judging, YOU will be judged and with the measure that YOU are measuring out, they will measure out to YOU.". Even when Peter thought it was good enough to forgive someone just 7 times Jesus corrected him and said at Mathew 18:22 "Jesus said to him: "I say to you, not, Up to seven times, but, Up to seventy-seven times.".

Mathew 23:23

"but YOU have disregarded the weightier matters of the Law, namely, justice and mercy and faithfulness.".

Mathew 9:13

"I want mercy, and not sacrifice.".

Judging now would uproot the wheat along with the weeds. (1 Corinthians Ch 6) There will be judging of the world and of angels in Gods kingdom to come. (Mathew 25:32) Jesus will do the separating of sheep and goats it is not up to an elder. (Mathew 19:28-30)

(Galatians 5:4) YOU are parted from Christ, whoever YOU are that try to be declared righteous by means of law; YOU have fallen away fro his undeserved kindness

Maybe he was so mad about the reports about the congregation of Corinth that he decided to add his own thoughts into the picture, but I feel that latter on he came to correct himself by writing a 2 Corinthians and then Romans. In romans it starts talking about Jesus rather than a bunch of laws. But thats just my opinion.

Billygoat

Interestingly, Paul was a Pharisee before his conversion. One might think such Pharisaic attitudes still influenced his view.

Just a thought...

How many years did it take you to quit thinking like a JW? I've been out 13 years and it's still a struggle for me. I can't imagine that Paul would find losing his "old personality" and trading it in for the "new one" was an easy feat. Something to think about before we get too critical of him.

Andi

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JESUS' TEACHINGS & PAUL'S

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