by Mary 27 Replies latest jw friends
Does Sword of Jah really claim to be Jehovah's spokesbeliever?
I've not really read any of his posts before.
I really can't see any prophet in making claims like that though...
As for Peter vs. Paul, Peter was a fisherman who felt strongly and was wonderfully human. Paul was a misogynistic Pharasee who created belief like a spreadsheet. BIG DIFFERENCE.
I'd also be interested in knowing what happened to John the Baptist's disciples. Did they become Christians, leaving John and following Jesus? Did Paul realize that he was, for all intents and purposes, starting a "new religion"? From what I've read in the bible, Jesus' purpose was not to start a new religion, but to bring Judaism "back to the basics" without all the insane laws and regulations that the Pharisees had imposed on the people. If that was His intent, should we today, be following the Ten Commandments, or were they in fact, "nailed to the cross" when Jesus died?
Ah what a great thread.
Paul's teachings to me are a paradox; he obviously cared much for the brothers, worried for them, worked for them; yet, he sought to control nearly everything he touched. I don't mean to introduce modern behavioral ideas here, but consider: Paul had something to say about EVERYTHING; he did occasionally offer the disclaimer, previously noted, but the idea that Jesus took the law out of the way only to be replaced by a new set of rules from Paul is anethema to the freedom that Jesus life and death gave.
At least, that's how I see it.
Granted, it means a lot less orderly congregation; it is not as easy to control the fellowship when you can't fall back on Paul's idea of excommunication and then apply it to every behavior you don't like, including but not limited to smoking, oral sex, dissent, holidays, blood transfusions, divorce and remarriage, etc etc etc.
But then, was it Jesus idea for neat little congregations of controlled believers to exist? Would it be OK for believers to come up with their own ideas for living a christian life, and to somehow show their beliefs to others?
".....then, was it Jesus idea for neat little congregations of controlled believers to exist? Would it be OK for believers to come up with their own ideas for living a christian life, and to somehow show their beliefs to others?...."
Good point. I'd have to say "no", this was not Jesus' idea, as this was the very thing he condemned the Pharisees for: making up all kinds of manmade laws and rules that went far beyond what Jehovah had originally given the nation of Israel. Unfortunately, that's not what happened.
Interestingly, when Charles Russell first founded our religion, he said in one of the Studies in the Scriptures that organized religion was not necessary for salvation and don't listen to anyone who tells you otherwise. It was Judge Booze Rutherford who changed all the rules. In fact you could say that the WTB&TS today mirrors Rutherford's teachings more than what it does Russells. Is this history repeating itself or what?
Mary,
There is still a group that follows John the babtist down to this day and although they do accept Jesus as a great prophet, they do not follow him as the "Son of God" or as "God". I will look it up again and post the information about them, for you.
Seedy
It seems to me that one of the greatest errors that religionists make, especially those who attach themselves fundamentally to their religious writings, is that they find it almost blasphemous to imagine life outside of the contemporary setting of their books.
Paul was an ex Pharisee and many of his theological expressions can be understood against such a social backdrop. For example, the 'disfellowshipping' process that he undoubtedly introduced into the early Christian Church was not unknown to the Jews. Being 'read out' of the Synagogue was the way that the church hierarchy could keep control without contravening the Roman Civil Law. Though religious executions took place, the Romans were not impressed when the Jews took the law into their own hands ( hence their presumed involvement in Jesus death ). Christians inherited a rather primitive disciplinary procedure and many seem to be prepared to live in its past. Disfellowshipping may have worked in the C1st century, but today it walks dangerously close to breaking the law and will eventually, when the government swallows its fear of religion, be outlawed.
Those who claim to worship a God who epitomizes love, is the creator of science, chemistry, mathematics, art, poetry, music and all the various skills that man has acquired, look rather foolish when they try to dress him in C1st clothes. As I mentioned once before, many Christians remind me of a man sitting in a Porsche zealously studying a Ford Model âTâ handbook.
HS
It was Judge Booze Rutherford who changed all the rules. In fact you could say that the WTB&TS today mirrors Rutherford's teachings more than what it does Russells.
Yep, that's my feeling too. I suspect that more of the R&F would come to the same conclusion if they would only read the books of both Russell and Rutherford. But then, they don't have time, nor are the old publications so readily available.
Cheers, Ozzie
Here is some info on the followers of John The Baptist
http://www.cresourcei.org/johnbaptist.html
http://www.meta-religion.com/World_Religions/mandeism.htm
http://www.ourladyrockwall.org/homilies/20011209.html
http://turing.wins.uva.nl/~grunberg/photos/may-2001/iraq-report/node22.html
http://www.mandaeanworld.com/who.html
I hope this helps
Seedy
