Challenge to Creationists

by cofty 147 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  WhatshallIcallmyself

  "What about the evidence of obvious design being presented by Vidquin?" - snowbird

  How can it be obvious when you don't know how everything in the universe came to be? The position you have taken is to go from not knowing something to asserting something based on not knowing anything in the first place.

  In order to state these things are designed you would need to offer evidence that these things cannot appear naturally; without divine guidance. In order to do that you need to understand everything about this universe because if you don't then there is always a chance that you have over-looked something. Don't forget, you aren't offering evidence for design here, you are instead stating that because something "looks" designed then it must be designed.

  When these things are eventually explained away where will you then go to still insist this god of yours exists? Your gaps are getting smaller by the day.

  
  
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  snowbird

  How can it be obvious when you don't know how everything in the universe came to be?

  ???

  Sylvia
  

  
  
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  WhatshallIcallmyself

  "???" - snowbird

  If you wish to assert something like the cell is designed, rather than the product of non-guided process you either have to bring the designer forwards to explain how it was all done (or to simply say "yeah it was me, good eh?") or demonstrate that there is no natural process that could bring it about.

  For the latter you would have to know everything so as to not overlook a potential natural process. You can't just say "I can't think of an explanation therefore..." or "I can't see how it could have happened naturally..." because that is nothing more than an argument from ignorance/incredulity and as such is logically flawed.
  

  
  
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  snowbird

  I believe God created ...

  But, you will never accept that, will you?

  Sylvia
  
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  cofty

  I believe God created - Snowbird

  Reality is about facts. Your beliefs are of no relevance...
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  snowbird

  Our beliefs are of no relevance.

  Exiting, stage left.

  Sylvia
  
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  WhatshallIcallmyself

  "I believe God created ..." - snowbird

  You can believe what you want about anything. It's when you start asserting these beliefs as reality against all rational evidence that you will find people objecting....

  "But, you will never accept that, will you?" - snowbird

  Of course I accept that you believe that. You seem to have ran off down a side alley instead of addressing the points I was making about how it is illogical to insist life is designed....

  
  
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  WhatshallIcallmyself

  "Whence evil? Now, I've got another one: Why evil?" - snowbird

  Evil is subjective. It is just how an individual sees a situation. It's nothing more than a descriptive observation that is born of an evolved mind. It is not a question that needs answering in this topic's context...

  
  
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  Simon

  Typical theist approach - when challenged and held to specifics, claim to be insulted and run.
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  Simon

  I don't understand why this isn't on a creationist/evolution forum.

  or "can I come up with some excuse why this discussion can be declared invalid and shut down - yeah, it's the wrong place, that will do".

  ... and if it was on a creationist / evolution forum someone would be saying "oh, that's too JW specific, it should be posted on a JW forum instead".

  This is the perfect place for it and it cuts to the heart of not only Christian beliefs but JW ones as well. The entire edifice is built on "in the beginning, god(s) created the heavens and the earth". If it can't be defended and is shown up as a flimsy plot then what happens to the rest of the beliefs? They stay as just beliefs - completely baseless superstitious beliefs and nothing more.