Yes the diagnosis often seems to concern the people around the individual rather than the person themselves.
Narcissistic personality disorder and the dubs
by purrpurr 40 Replies latest jw friends
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Acts5v29
Good morning Xanthippe,
Whatever the label, if someone is bad for you and it is possible to keep away from them - keep away from them. This sounds a little like the shunning of religions, but yours will be based on evidence, rather than orders - and a diagnosis is not needed to separate from people who behave badly.
best wishes
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dubstepped
The book "The Narcissistic Family" totally nailed my family and the organization. In short, narcissists see people as mere objects to be controlled. If not, they can be thrown away like garbage, just like the idiotic JW TV showed recently. It's not a people of love, but rather one based on authority and absolute mindless obedience. -
WingCommander
Dubstepped: You nailed it. -
slimboyfat
That's really interesting about the garbage comment. I agree about it as a general comment on the JW view of people. The only problem is that it was Bro Flodin who said it and he doesn't really seem to me to fit the general characteristics of NPD himself. He seems misguided rather than totally lacking empathy.
Jaracz on the other hand... I don't know what label to give it, but there was something wrong with him. Morris is similar.
From what I've read one of the key features of NPD is that they absolutely hate the idea of growing old. I wonder if GB members have displayed that in their comments.
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dubstepped
Actually having a personality disorder is rare, and very difficult to diagnose. Showing narcissist traits, however, is easier to look for. Not all dubs are narcissists for sure, but the doctrine and way people outside the organization are labeled and judged is to strip away their humanity, so even emotionally healthy dubs see people with a toxic lens that they've adopted.
I am a recovering narcissist. I learned about this thing called empathy, something called the ego, and worked through tons of emotional abuse. My stomach turns when thinking about how I once viewed people. I was a very sensitive kid that became very cold and calloused over the years. I'm glad to say that I found that emotional kid inside (thanks to a book called "Healing The Shame That Binds").
Even the most empathetic dubs with beautiful relationships still are at the mercy of narcissistic doctrine. You and I are ultimately bird food, enemies of God, and therefore their enemies. I once realized years ago that it was hard to care about people at the doors because I was taught to see them so derisively.
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Vidiot
@ slimboyfat...
I'm convinced Jaracz was a sociopath.
What's more, I think the rest of the WT higher-ups thought so, too.
We heard plenty of nice things said about Fred Franz after he died, but Jaracz? Not a peep.
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William Penwell
I have just gone through this with a dub acquaintance and I posted about it a week ago. Just because I said NO to her she went right off the deep end, sending me an email accusing me of things that happened twenty years ago that she knows nothing about and threatening me etc. Really some Christian. Well I just had it with her head games and that is why I decided to cut her out of my life. I have enough friends in my life, I do not need this toxic person. Take about narcissist, she said and I quote, "No one has been through what I am going through". -
talesin
WP, for sure. I copied this list from Psychology Today. Article is titled "6 Signs of Narcissism You May Not Know About". [bold is mine]
1. Has a grandiose sense of self-importance.
2. Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love.
3. Believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions).
4. Requires excessive admiration [regularly fishes for compliments, and is highly susceptible to flattery].
5. Has a sense of entitlement.
6. Is interpersonally exploitative.
7. Lacks empathy: is unwilling [or, I would add, unable] to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others.
8. Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her.
9. Shows arrogant, haughty [rude and abusive] behaviors or attitudes. -
William Penwell
Actually having a personality disorder is rare, and very difficult to diagnose. Showing narcissist traits, however, is easier to look for. Not all dubs are narcissists for sure, but the doctrine and way people outside the organization are labeled and judged is to strip away their humanity, so even emotionally healthy dubs see people with a toxic lens that they've adopted.
I agree that not all Dubs are narcissist but the cult attracts those types and cultivates it in them. You are correct I remember the days that I was a dub and I have to say know I am not proud at the way I thought about "worldly" people being less human than the rest of us dubs were.