A new generation of anointed that will not pass away. (page 16)

Vanderhoven7

@Diogenesister

I choose not to discuss faith issues with Atheists. You are free to discuss anything you wish with whomever you wish...and I promise I won't get on your case.

My point is that you are interested in discussing "faith issues". You do it all the time and invite others to join in. Of course you are not compelled to discuss it with DJW but it seems contrary to what a discussion is about. But it's not my quarrel so I shouldn't have said anything. It just left me a bit gob-smacked.

Vanderhoven7

@Earnest

So far, my interests lie in discussing specific gospel or salvation issues with those in groups such as Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses and Bahai. That's about it.

Fisherman

am not interested in discussing faith issues with someone who distains Christian faith.

Well said, Van!

Vanderhoven7

@Fisherman,

Hmmm... surprising support from an unlikely corner.

waton

surely, when having a debate on an open forum, that is composed mainly of members that do not share such limited scope of discussion, you 2 must be open to accept related questions, comments, that question the basic concepts of the subject matter,

an kindly openly entertain such calls?

If you want a private discussion without being bothered by embarrassing question, there are direct venues for that?

Disillusioned JW

When Vanderhoven7 on page 16 of this topic thread said regarding himself "I choose not to discuss faith issues with Atheists" that immediately gave me the idea that he believes in Christianity and the Bible based solely upon faith, rather than upon the type of evidence (such as historical or scientific) that could conceivably convince an atheistic ex-Christian to once again believe in Christianity. If that is the case then it would be correct for Vanderhoven7 to conclude it would be pointless for him to try to persuade me and other atheists of Christianity. A great many of Christians who became atheists did so for logical reasons, at least for reasons which we are convinced were logical ones. Atheists of that type are not persuaded by arguments based upon faith (at least the kind of faith which atheists perceive is blind faith).

Perhaps I am wrong in thinking (perhaps by intuition) that Vanderhoven7 holds onto his belief in Christianity solely (or primarily) because of faith. But if such is the case, I would only know I am wrong if Vanderhoven7 told me so and explained his reasons to me. He has made his choice to not tell me his reasons. OK, that is fine.

Somewhere I read something which to the effect said that logic and facts will only convince a Christian to became an atheist if the person became a Christian due to reasons based upon logic and facts. If a person didn't try to use logic and facts to determine if Christianity is true, before becoming a Christian, then that kind of person will probably never disbelieve in Christianity by an atheist presenting logic and facts against belief in Christianity. [Update: A moment I relocated one of the sources about when the use of logic doesn't persuade people to change their views. It is at https://www.wikihow.com/Persuade-a-Christian-to-Become-Atheist . It says the following. "You must understand where your friend is coming from in order to build a bridge between your two belief systems. At the same time, remember that you can't use logic to persuade someone out of a position that they didn't use logic to get into."]

Diogenesister

DJW Somewhere I read something which to the effect said that logic and facts will only convince a Christian to became an atheist if the person became a Christian due to reasons based upon logic and facts.

Which is interesting because that's often the reason people convert to Jehovah's witnesses, or so they'll claim, logic and facts. Far more so than Christendom I think.A lot is made of people being vulnerable when they convert - a death perhaps etc, which I don't dispute happens.

But at least when myself and others were convinced particularly in the 70s and 80s it was the "logic" of Jehovah's witnesses that often did so. Particularly those converts who were educated. We would often say they made sense as compared to other religions....for example their stance on hell, which is completely antithetical to a loving God. The concept of the dead knowing nothing and the resurrection to Earth. That they don't believe in the trinity which is a strange concept to a non believers ears and snacks of polytheism.

But most of all their stance on neutrality and not fighting which makes sense for Christians who are commanded to love their brothers....who may live in the country that your country wishes to fight.

I'm not saying I now agree with these things but they made sense to a lot of converts and so JWs are more likely to respond to factual based arguments than other Christians.

I think Earnest was shocked that Vanderhoven7 wont debate his faith because he discusses ways to wake JWs up and presumably expects them to defend their faith.....??🤔

TonusOH

Amusing: on that wikiHow page, the side panel showed me this:

Disillusioned JW

Diogenesister, when I decided to become baptized as a JW at age 15 I did so for what I thought was because of logical reasons and based upon facts, but I knew it greatly influenced by the emotional mindset that comes from being taught there is a God who will bring Armageddon. However some of what I thought were facts (ones taught to me by the WT) were only half-truths and some of reasoning at the time was faulty. I also didn't know enough relevant facts. But later after I learned more and improved my critical thinking skills I determined I made a mistake in concluding that the JW religion is the true form of Christianity. Later I learned that much of biblical Christianity is also wrong. Eventually I became an atheist. I thus was swayed by logic and facts to becoming an atheist, because even when I had formerly decided the JW religion was the truth, it was because I valued using logic and facts to decide what is truth - instead of faith.

A new generation of anointed that will not pass away.

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