Doctrines and Bible Interpretations (page 3)

road to nowhere

Elderberry. I will disagree on a great way of life. Too many petty rules; education, overtime, music, etc.

Good ol boys club

Avoid anything " worldly" often just for the controversy

IWant2Know

KalebOutWest said:

There are countless people on this forum. You will have to be more specific, such as use their actual name.
And if you know their name, you can then ask them directly by sending them a message.
But individual people here who don't know them or about them can't answer questions about others.
Forums are just like real life. We don't have ESP here either and thus cannot read one another's minds (or yours). It's called "reality," and there are boundries to it.
(It's like me asking you: "What about that one woman who lives in your town in that one house who likes pepper on her potatoes? You know, the one who wears material made of molecules? What is her father's name?" How are you supposed to know? You can't. I would not ask you to answer a question without enough specifics in it.)

Well, she was a fairly well-known poster and lots of people at this forum used to refer to her if you wanted a deep Biblical question answered. However, I have known about this forum for a long time, and I haven't seen her post for a while. Therefore, she may have left the forum, or something may have happened to her.

Also, she had a picture of a young girl in her avatar probably in her early twenties, although by now she would be much older looking if she used a current picture.

Vanderhoven7

The gospel is not a minor issue. Ask 8.5 million Jehovah's Witnesses if they are saved or if all of their sins are forgiven and you can expect evasive answers. They are preaching a non-salvivic works based gospel which is no gospel at all and provides no assurance of anything. If they hang on to the words of men in New York they might survive Armageddon. If they don't, they are toast.

IWant2Know

Vanderhoven7 said:

The truth is
Every unique doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses is extra-biblical, .ie., not found in the Bible.
Evey teaching that is unique and original to the religion is derived by eisegesis rather than exegesis I.e., speculation additional to scripture.

But what about the whole Daniel statue thing? Because both Jews and church Christians and skeptics say that the feet of iron and clay is Rome. However, related verses speak about a stone carved from a mountain that smashes that statue and grows and covers all of earth. Therefore, how could Rome be the feet of the statue since the stone carved from the mountain hasn't taken over the world after Rome was destroyed?

IWant2Know

Kosonen said:

I would like to shortly tell my story. When I was about 30 years 19 years ago I saw one WT teaching that was not according to the Bible. Then I thought what else might be wrong? So I started to read the Bible cover to cover multiple times prayerfully to understand which WT doctrines are true and which are false. In that way during several years I found out many things WT teaches correctly but also many things they teach falsely.

So, which ones are those?

IWant2Know

ElderBerry said:

Religion comes from a need for hope

I agree.

ElderBerry said:

On Reddit many PIMOs are turning to agnostic so they can still have hope.

Could you elaborate... or as JWs used to say, expound on that?Also, they need a sticky here so that people can understand all the PI acronyms. I know some of them, but I'm going to go Google the rest of them.

ElderBerry said:

I think most PIMIs think the GB maybe wrong on some things otherwise there would never be new lite ever again.

But I would say that they are pretty steadfast and don't really care about that.

IWant2Know

slimboyfat said:

JWs are much closer to the biblical texts than other Christian groups in key teachings including: the importance of God’s name; that Jesus is the firstborn of all creation and subordinate to God; that Christians should be separate from the world and not take part in wars; that consciousness ends at death; that humans will be resurrected to a restored earth; that anointed Christians comprise the ‘Israel of God’; that all Christians must preach; and so on, this is not a complete list. The things they are wrong about are relatively minor and mainly to do with the end times, such as the Gentile Times ending in 1914 and the identity of the ‘faithful slave’.

I basically agree with most of what you said. So, are you still a JW, slimboyfat ?

Sea Breeze

Ask 8.5 million Jehovah's Witnesses if they are saved or if all of their sins are forgiven and you can expect evasive answers.

Exactly Vanderhoven. The reason is that there is a very long list of things to acheive. This article gives a partial list:

What Is Needed for Salvation? w67 12/1 pp. 707-711 This article says you need:

BIBLE STUDY (How much is enough?)

EXERCISE OF FAITH (Works... no mention of how much is necessary)

RIGHT ASSOCIATION (Only JW's)

A NEW PERSONALITY (How good of a personality is good enough?)

THE PREACHING REQUIREMENT (How much is needed?)

THE STEP OF DEDICATION (Baptism in the name of "doctrines unique to Jehovah's Witnesses")

ENDURE FOR THE REWARD (Life is to be endured. JW's must live a defeated life)

Sadly, Jesus did not make the list of things you need for salvation in this article.

The hope that JW's have is the same kind of hope a person has when they purchase a lottery ticket. The WT is fond of quoting OT verses to describe it: "seek meekness, seek righteousness...probably you may be concealed in the day of Jehovah's anger". - Zeph. 2: 3

By contrast, the New Testament hope of salvation is similar to when you are waiting for a new car to be delivered that has already been purchased. It just needs a little prep work first. You already have the legal right to it.

1 John 5: 11-13 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life

IWant2Know

Vanderhoven7 said:

The unique doctrines of Jehovah’s Witnesses are the ones that only Jehovah’s Witnesses teach. Here is a list that I’ve compiled…and perhaps Witnesses will be glad to demonstrate that they are found in the Bible.
1. Only Jehovah's Witnesses teach that there were less than 144,000 faithful Christians that existed prior to the 20th century They alone teach that from all of humanity, there will be exactly and exclusively 144,000 faithful born-again Christians whose destiny is heaven.

I'll have to get back to the rest of your post some other time, Vanderhoven7, because it's getting late and this is an old forum and it takes me a long time to quote and compose replies. However, I did want to say that if I'm being totally honest, I would think that a group who claims to have exclusive truth from the Bible, would have a different interpretation of scripture compared to mainstream Christians. However, perhaps the governing body may eventually have new light about all the Christians who ever lived since the first century only being of the anointed, and that perhaps many of them could have been of the great crowd class.

Vanderhoven7

Right on Seabreeze. BTW I am preaching on 1Jonn 5 tomorrow.

@IWant2know

Christ's kingdom was set up after His Ascension and Glorification. Nothing to do with the Watchtower version of the kingdom

Benson Commentary

And in the days of these kings — That is, kingdoms, or during the succession of these four monarchies; and it must be during the time of the last of them, because they are reckoned four in succession, and consequently this must be the fifth kingdom. Shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom — This can only be understood with propriety, as the ancients understood it, of the kingdom of Christ. Accordingly, his kingdom was set up during the days of the last of these kingdoms, that is, the Roman. The stone was totally a different thing from the image; and the kingdom of Christ is totally different from the kingdoms of this world. The stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, as our heavenly body is said (2 Corinthians 5:1) to be a building of God, a house not made with hands, that is, spiritual, as the phrase is used in other places. This the fathers generally apply to Christ himself, who was miraculously born of a virgin, without the concurrence of man: but it should be rather understood of the kingdom of Christ, which was formed out of the Roman empire, not by number of hands, or strength of armies, but without human means, and the virtue of second causes. This kingdom was set up by the God of heaven, and from hence the phrase of the kingdom of heaven came to signify the kingdom of the Messiah; and so it was used and understood by the Jews, and so it is applied by our Saviour in the New Testament.

Doctrines and Bible Interpretations

Kosonen said:

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