by EdenOne 20 Replies latest watchtower bible
Sea Breeze,
None of the verses you brought out on the fate of the wicked speak of external consciousness, inate immortality or endless torment.
I recommend an inexpensive book that is available on Amazon entitled, "Eternal Torment-Image and Reality. It deals with every verse Old and New Testament...looking for eternal torment, eternal consciousness and immortality of the soul.
I know the author well. Check the back cover because you know him as well.
Vanderhoven,
I take the book teaches conditional immortality? Funny, of all the JW like beliefs, this alone is something I have retained believing in, although I believe souls go to heaven after AD 70.
VanDH,
True, they only speak of the surety of judgement after death for everyone. Other scriptures speak of the eternal nature of the soul.
Right JoenB75,
This mortal must put on immortality...every Christian will be raised immortal. The only time eternal and torment are juxtaposed in the entire Bible is in a symbolic book (Rev. 20:10) and applies to the devil, the seven headed beast and the false prophet.
What about vs. 15 :
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Hi Sea Breeze,
The dragon and the serpent are images of the devil. Death and hell are cast into the lake of fire, the lake is the image which literally is the second death or eternal death.
Death and the grave cannot be picked up and tossed anywhere. The beast is not literal since no beast has seven heads. You cannot literally torment an abstraction dispite the fact that it is personified.
One verse in the whole Bible which contradicts the sentence given Adam, dust thou aren't and to dust thou shall return. Apart from the ransom of Christ, no one would be eligible for a resurrection. And that one verse is in a book of symbols in a highly symbolic passage and yet many conclude much literal information from it.
We could start a thread on this...something like:
"Is the Watchtower Right About Hell?"
IMO The good news they got entirely wrong, the bad news for the wicked, they got right.
According to the WTS, the whole judgement thing happens well after Armageddon. People will be resurrected, whether they were good or evil, as long as they haven't already received "a witness".
So the JWs believe that Hitler, Stalin, Mao and all the other mass-murderers from history are due a do-over.
Bat. Shit. Crazy.
Wow...I never heard a JW say Hitler was coming back and given a chance to gain eternal life.
By saying they got the bad news right I was referring specifically to their view of final punishment as annihilation.
“This bears significance to me, as I'm arguing about the significance of Jehovah's Witnesses comparing disfellowshipping as being analogous to ancient capital punishment in ancient Israel.“
In the past they have certainly used this analogy but I don’t think they would be so certain now. Everything changes in WT doctrine, don’t we know, and thoughts on the resurrection are less dogmatic.
They know that some will not be resurrected but who ? Nowadays an informed Witness would simply say that is up to Jehovah and they will wait and see.
It's still current. Pick up Insight On The Scriptures under entry "Expelled" and see for yourself.
The biggest flaw I find in the analogy (besides the obvious lack of compassion) is that someone executed couldn't be rehabilitated, whereas JW's allow and incentive the reinstatement of disfellowshipped people. So the rethotic is all about fear and hatred, but not really consequential.
There are, however, some details on the analogy that are worth noting: in ancient Israel, after stoning, the corpse was hung from a tree and put on public display until sunset. Hanging between earth and heaven was symbolic of rejection from both worlds. Humilliation and shame after death. Defilement of the memory of the deceased. Horror in the minds of the observers. That's what shunning after disfellowshipping is meant to accomplish to ex-JWs.
In JW land, the shunning follows the disfellowshipped person even AFTER death. Regarding funeral procedures, a "wordly unbeliever" gets better treatment than an ex-JW to whom a funeral service conducted by a minister of religion is denied. So much for "all sins are forgiven in death" ...
