"Somebody" needs to do "Something!"

by Terry 27 Replies latest jw friends

  • shepherdless
    shepherdless
    Putin has already said he'd nuke the West if the West gets involved - he's made that quite clear.

    That is what he wants you to think.

    Let’s look at things from the Russian perspective. Invasion has not turned into an “Anschluss” as hoped. Ukraine resistance is fierce. Plan A has failed. Plan B therefore is to defeat Ukraine military in battle. Numerically, Russia should win. Russia doing poorly so far in North and East but gaining ground in South.

    From the Russian point of view, this is all still very winnable, particularly the most important goal of a land bridge to Crimea. The only thing that could rule that out at this stage is if the West clears the air of Russian support. That is why Russia is waiving the Nuclear war bogieman; to try to stop that happening.

    There is still a lot of brinkmanship, and a lot of off-ramps around. Russia now has to win a ground war against a much smaller but more motivated opponent. If that is the way it stays, Russia probably rates its chances of success as reasonably good. If the West starts to get involved by, for example, enforcing a no fly zone or destroying theromobaric missiles or cluster weapons, then it becomes doubtful. This is probably why Russia has largely held back thus far, in deploying mass destruction weapons. In the meantime, USA is flying B52’s along Ukraine’s border, probably containing all the ordinance needed to wipe out that convoy north of Kyiv.

    As a result, I think we will continue to see more of the status quo. Ukraine may or may not survive, but both Russia and the West will avoid stepping over certain red lines.

    Given the above, if you were in Putin’s position, would you start nuclear war now, and almost certainly be incinerated? No, you would play it out, and see what happens.

  • truth_b_known
    truth_b_known

    I would just ask that if you support the war efforts of the nation you are a citizen of to take your adult children and your self down to your local armed forces recruiter to enlist. I would also ask that you ask your government to pass a law that makes it mandatory that elected government officials must enlist their children into the armed forces.

    The U.S. hasn't gone to war since the draft ended. The U.S. military has gone to war. There's a big difference.

  • Terry
    Terry

    "Evil" is a problematic word with religious implications unnecessarily fraught with the loaded history of God vs Satan.
    Strictly from real-world necessity and subsequent Policy standpoint, the deliberate ratcheting up of NATO encroachment - Putin has been clear about his intentions and redline tripwire.
    None of what Russia has done is surprising because it follows its own template time and again.
    Nicole Simpson told police officers who answered her frightened calls for help against O.J. that he would kill her one day. And yet - everybody was surprised.

    1. NUCLEAR consequences must always take priority when contemplating pushback.
    The "other" NATO members need their turn up at bat and the U.S. has earned a bench-warming bye.
    Jibber-jabber isn't policy.

    2. Oligarch vs Oligarch lurks behind every curtain.
    Disruption of international banking, oil and gas flow, economic instability is EVERYTHING while human misery in Ukraine is nothing (to oligarchs).

    3, The fact that Putin didn't immediately send rocket strikes into the Presidential estate demonstrates he is keeping lines open for a bullying demonstration of "Let's have that chat again."

    4. Don't Tread on Me comes to mind. Give me Liberty or Give Me Death comes to mind. But those historic utterances were pre NATO. Putin is wisely (from his POV) taking advantage of weakness in leadership with Biden and the others. China is licking its lips and salivating over future action in Taiwan.

    The grand stage on which this Kabuki theater is staging a "sorting out" of who gets what and for how much is now playing.

    Biden cannot distract us from the fact he is the weakest President in memory. All mouth. How different is that from Putin? Well, Putin at least made a move. The old saying, "Don't ask permission; ask forgiveness" comes to mind. (Not that Putin knows how to apologize except to assent to an "adjustment" by Nato.

  • pistolpete
    pistolpete
    shepherdless

    Given the above, if you were in Putin’s position, would you start nuclear war now, and almost certainly be incinerated?

    You can never understatement human's illogical devotion to some cause.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsI79eO23K0

  • pistolpete
    pistolpete

    You can never understatement human's illogical devotion to some cause.

    Correction

    You can never under-estimate human's illogical devotion to some cause.

    https://youtu.be/PsI79eO23K0

  • waton
    waton
    You can never under-estimate human's illogical devotion to some cause.

    The devotion to the cause of the weak. look at Europe now. First, Germany installed a communist educated lady as head of the conservative party, then she became head of the biggest Nato nation. "The most powerful lady in the world". ( wir schaffen das)

    Her lady defense minister, that squandered all the money, and left germany defenseless, was made head of the European Union, for more of the same., on a larger scale. you could not make that up, without being laughed at. in the meantime,

    Putin warned the other former colonies, The baltics to protect his embassies. Any riot there will become a reason to invade in order to protect the bear's interest. not invade, but be forced into the next " military action".

  • redvip2000
    redvip2000
    The US used the same excuses for invading Iraq in 2003. They claimed Iraq was developing nuclear weapons just as Putin claimed Ukraine was developing nuclear weapons.

    Oh you mean the Iraq that had invaded a sovereign country without provocation year earlier? You are really going to defend an illegitimate government who brutalizes its people and terrorizes its region? Now, I was not in favor of the Iraq war, but again, this is false equivalency.

    How sweet no to invade your allies.

    If by allies you mean democratic countries, then..... yes I'm ok with that.

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    I guess you are referring to the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in 1990. Probably not the Iraqi invasion of Iran in 1980 that was heavily supported by the US.

    There is no equivalence between Ukraine and Iraq in the sense that what the west did to Iraq was much much worse, and Iraq posed no threat to us. That’s not to “defend” Russia, it’s to point out rank hypocrisy.

  • shepherdless
    shepherdless
    I guess you are referring to the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in 1990. Probably not the Iraqi invasion of Iran in 1980 that was heavily supported by the US.

    Hang on there, sbf. While I am in broad agreement with some of your points on the second Gulf War, I think you have gone a step too far in the above.

    US didn’t support Saddam Hussein’s attempted invasion of Iran. USSR and a few others did, after it started. USA instead gave limited support to Iran; remember the “Iran Contra Affair”?

    The Iraq Iran war (which has the dubious distinction of being the longest war of the 20th Century) was entirely the creation of an Arab mini-Putin. Not all wars are the fault of the USA. Let’s stick to blaming them for the ones that they should be blamed for.

  • slimboyfat

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