Why disfellowship must be eliminated for the survival of the WT itself

by TheScientist 109 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  joe134cd

  MeanMrMustard: I have a feeling the actual number of true, long term funders and believers is a lot lower.

  This could be true as well. What ever the case. In my country these people are not choosing to identify as such, when given the freedom to do so, in the census.
  
  

  I do believe that the LDS and JWs problems are quite different. The LDS will probably run out of members before it runs out of money. However, the JWs will probably run out of money before it runs out of members. By what of seen in the ExMo community, I do believe the JWs could have a higher activity rate, and a bigger membership than the LDS. I don’t think there would be much in it, maybe a couple of million or so.
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  LV101

  Sounds like a Happy New Year already per the above WT survival comments. Although I can't wait for the next desperate business maneuver, I remain skeptical re/its demise. Hopefully, we'll have hopium flowing of WT fallout leaks monthly -- sounds too good to be true and we all know that drama, but has and is happening to other religions.

  I think they're begging or in process of scooping up as many estates of adherents as possible -- after all they've mandated "vaccinations" and "boosters" to keep their stream of chunk change forthcoming. Quite lucrative for WT if religions were paid to promote/mandate this horror plus collect on adherents' estates quickly. What a business scheme - 'why wait when we can skate!'
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  TonusOH

  If it stays alive by making changes that ease the pressure on the rank and file and move towards a more mainstream approach, that might be better than having it die off.
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  DesirousOfChange

  Who’s got the money to donate nowadays? Just living is expensive and add to the problem is uneducated low paid Jehovah’s Witnesses that aren’t allowed to work overtime to get ahead. There ain’t much left over at the end of the month.

  This speaks a different story than I see in our area. It's difficult to hire people. Much more difficult to hire honest, dependable people. When you find that kind of employee, you pay them well or they move on to someone who will. We have younger (30's) JWs who are doing quite well. Many taking cruises and international vacations. They have nice homes and nice cars. I am quite sure they are contributing regularly and I think there is a pride among some about how much they can contribute.
  

  
  

  I know of one single sister who was converted by studying in prison, so she has a felony on her record. She has had no trouble getting work and was recently hired by a larger industrial manufacturing firm here which is union and so she's making the best paychecks that she ever has. Even before that job, she was concerned about ONLY contributing $100/month.

  
  

  Many younger JWs are in the construction trades here and earning $50,000+ and good health & retirement benefits. Quite a few are self employed in service businesses, ie cleaning (those people earn good money here as an average home pays well over $100), dog grooming, hair styling, etc. All of these young couples are living well. And likely contributing well.

  
  

  Why are they still JWs? Because they don't care about doctrine. Hell, they don't even know JW doctrine. Being a JW is their social network. They are not interested in being involved in things that are objectionable to JWs, ie, screwing around, overdrinking, or drugs (if you want MJ you get a medical card). And, the men are all receiving "privileges" in the Cong and feel good about themselves for it (and they get to wear a suit and tie). They can keep the Borg in the black for another (overlapping) generation.

  
  

  
  
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  Vidiot

  TonysOH - “If it stays alive by making changes that ease the pressure on the rank and file and move towards a more mainstream approach, that might be better than having it die off.”

  But then, it would ultimately be just another denomination among denominations…

  …and in doing so, will have effectively forfeited its claim of God’s exclusive favor…

  DesirousOfChange - “…Being a JW is their social network.”

  …and there are absolutely better social networks out there…

  …at that point, the carrot and stick have become effectively neutered, so where’s the incentive to stay?
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  Phizzy

  " there are absolutely better social networks out there…"

  So very true ! Long before I woke up and left, I said to a JW "I get a better welcome in so-and-so than I do in the K.H. In the place I referred to, everybody said "hello" and chatted and asked after my welfare, some in the K.H could not even be arsed to say "Good Morning".

  The trouble is, you don't realise this fully until you leave.

  Tinkering at the edges of the various things that are systemically wrong with J.W org, be it DFing or whatever, will not stop the steady flow of those leaving IMO.
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  TonusOH

  Vidiot: …and in doing so, will have effectively forfeited its claim of God’s exclusive favor…

  I was wondering about that. The recent repetition and reminders that they are mere fallible men who sometimes get things wrong seems almost like a way to ease the rank and file into a more relaxed approach. It gets tougher to hold yourself up as anything more than a seeker of truth if you have to keep reminding people that you screw up just like anyone else.

  Either you are not the exclusive channel of god, or Jehovah just loves to prank his F&DS from time to time. There really shouldn't be a question of how the leadership maintains control, it's more a question of finding leaders who are charismatic enough. And, wouldn't you know it, they're shuffling leadership and bringing in younger guys recently. Hmmm...
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  Vidiot

  TonusOH - “…It gets tougher to hold yourself up as anything more than a seeker of truth if you have to keep reminding people that you screw up just like anyone else…”

  Agreed.

  The need to appear humble whilst insisting that they be obeyed without question can’t help but feel increasingly disconcerting for the average member with half a brain.

  Eventually, you get to the point where your asking yourself, “Wait… if they’re effectively admitting they’ve gotten this wrong, what else are they wrong about? Evolution? Armageddon? The claim of ‘God’s Exclusive Earthly Organization’?”

  If you have even the tiniest sliver of rational thinking ability, those questions nag at you more and more.

  Know how I know?

  ’Cause that was me.
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  DesirousOfChange

  Eventually, you get to the point where your asking yourself, “Wait… if they’re effectively admitting they’ve gotten this wrong, what else are they wrong about? Evolution? Armageddon? The claim of ‘God’s Exclusive Earthly Organization’?”

  
  

  Of course, some will just always drink the KoolAid.
  
  
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  Vidiot

  Not to mention that that the Org’s business model is (tax-exemption notwithstanding) arguably based on an American capitalist template…

  … i.e. it requires constant real growth to remain sustainable.

  And I’ve said many times that constant reductions in staff and product output, liquidation of assets, legal troubles, and dwindling sources of income are not typically considered signs of robust corporate financial health.