How do you feel about Brexit?

by SydBarrett 42 Replies latest jw friends

  • Journeyman
    Journeyman
    EU has precisely zero stakes in Brexit.

    That's wrong in one major and important way: the EU had a vested interest in making Brexit as difficult as possible, to dissuade any other member states from thinking that leaving the union would be easy or desirable.

    That's why the EU was so difficult in a lot of the negotiations and wanted to make the issue over a possible border with Northern Ireland so hard, while at the same time making sly comments about how they would "love to have the UK stay" etc (to try to sway the undecideds and win over the Remainers - although the latter wasn't hard, since in the eyes of many of them, the EU can do no wrong).

    However, that's also why IMO the UK Brexit negotiating Tories were so unwise to talk and act like they were playing "hardball". They should've been smarter and more careful than that, knowing that the EU negotiators (people like Michel Barnier) were trying to make the departure of the UK as difficult and awkward as possible, whilst on the surface trying to sound the more reasonable and understanding parties.

    The best way to counter someone who is trying to manipulate you is to smile sweetly, be as nice as possible in return, but then play them at their own game - not try to act and talk like the toughest guy in the room and butt heads in a misguided attempt to make the other side back down. In that sense, the EU negotiators played a much more crafty and well-planned game (apart from Juncker who occasionally got caught voicing his real views). But then, the UK also had the major (self-inflicted) disadvantage of having first Theresa May (too weak) then Boris Johnson (well, we all know how well that turned out) as leaders at the time!

  • LoveUniHateExams
    LoveUniHateExams

    That's wrong in one major and important way: the EU had a vested interest in making Brexit as difficult as possible, to dissuade any other member states from thinking that leaving the union would be easy or desirable

    ^^^ Exactly. This can easily be overlooked.

  • Nikolaus
    Nikolaus

    That is the very nature of negotiations. The EU had zero stakes to make Brexit successful. There was zero obligation to be kind or to give any concessions. If the British promoters of Brexit and their negotiators have not taken this into account, it is 100% their fault. So, forget about blaming the EU for your sad results.

  • cofty
    cofty
    forget about blaming the EU for your sad results

    No blame necessary. We left a corrupt authoritarian bureaucracy. Despite Boris' lies there was always going to be considerable pain in untangling our country from decades of membership. Anybody who thinks it is all good or all bad is not being objective.

  • Nikolaus
    Nikolaus

    Then enjoy your new self-created situation.

  • cofty
    cofty

    'Enjoy'? Don't think so. I just said it will be/is painful. It's a bit like a divorce after a long and unhappy marriage. Expensive and painful but necessary.

  • SydBarrett
    SydBarrett

    All the pain will be worth it if Brits no longer have to look at a straight banana in the store and can once again climb up on their roof like the Germans and French apparently can and do constantly.....

  • Journeyman
    Journeyman
    So, forget about blaming the EU for your sad results.

    Clearly you didn't read what I wrote.

    In my final paragraph, I pointed out the UK Brexit team didn't handle the negotiations well enough, so I made it clear that was their failing. That doesn't invalidate the Leave vote itself though, nor does it mean the EU were blameless throughout.

    Besides, there are are no "sad results" - ultimately, the UK has left the EU's political structure and will not be sucked into closer political or monetary union, which was primarily what the Leave vote was for. The future outside the EU is still being shaped, we haven't reached the "result". It took 40+ years of being drawn deeper into the "project" before the UK vote in 2016, so it will take some time to fully extricate the country and set a fresh course - something that Remoaners overlook in their rush to cry that the sky is falling in without EU membership.

    In the meantime, diplomacy works both ways. Just as there was no "obligation" for the EU to be "kind", nor is there any longer any obligation for the UK to show sympathy or support to the EU in its difficulties. However, I would hope the UK would not be as petty in response as the kind of attitude you ascribe to the EU.

    Interestingly, the frosty relations between the UK and EU are already thawing, partly because of the challenges brought about by the Russia/Ukraine conflict. That's caused much more difficulty for the EU due to the reliance of many of their members on Russian energy, and the internal political and diplomatic differences over how to respond. I suspect over time, as the EU and UK settle into a new, more separated relationship, things will begin to smooth out as other mutual priorities like international security and refugee migration become more urgent.

  • BoogerMan
    BoogerMan

    Eventually there will be major plusses & minuses, but the Brexiteer's cries of "regain our sovereignty" ring hollow when the W.H.O.'s plans to introduce a global vaccine passport (as forced on E.U. citizens) on every country, appear to dismiss a country's sovereign will.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FVP1cto6Fw

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    Which "pluses" would they be exactly ?

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