How can 144,000 be a literal number?

by Pleasuredome 36 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • RubaDub
  • singing a song only they know (must be one tough song if no one else can learn it)
  • I believe an article some time ago in the publications addressed the issue. I'll have to check the CD-ROM.

    If I recall, the song referred to in Revelation probably was written in a manner that requires an extremely wide vocal range, like the US National Anthem, the Star Spangled Banner.

    Instead of having a choir with a mixture of vocal types, it's probably a requirement that those singing be able to master all the high notes as well as the low ones. They probably have rules regarding that or it's stipulated in their contract.

    ***** Rub a Dub

  • noko
    noko

    Slave of Christ, how does your works show your faith? Why are you here?

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Dearest SwordofJah... may you have peace!

    Yes! Of course, I will share with you what my Lord shared with me! The temple, dear one... is US! WE... are the temple of God. So that what Ezekiel saw were 'gates' and 'pillars' and 'kitchens' and 'rooms', etc.!

    Let me explain, please: My Lord said, "In my Father's "house"... there are many "abodes". An "abode" is a dwelling place. And in God's "house", there are MANY dwelling places! In His house... US... there are many places for Him to "dwell"... or reside. In US.

    Christ, the Son... is the "Solomon" who has been commissioned to build God's TRUE temple, His TRUE house... the BODY of Christ!

    So, you have Christ, the "cornerstone"... the apostles, the "foundation"... others as "pillars" and still others as "stones"... ALL being are being "built up together"... for "a place for God to OCCUPY... by SPIRIT!"

    Matthew 21:42; Ephesians 2:19-21; Revelation 3:12; 1 Peter 2:5; John 14:23; Romans 8:9, 10

    My Lord didn't go to heaven to build a house ("prepare a place") - he went... to prepare a place FOR THE HOUSE. And so, when this "building" has been completed, God's spirit (which is 'fragmented' now - I'll explain that below...) will completely FILL it... us... as ONE body... so that God is "all things to all people." Once we are FILLED with God, He dwelling completely in US... as a BODY... then CHRIST becomes the King everlasting. For he (Christ) is the HEAD of the Body. So what Ezekiel saw was a DEPICTION of the temple of God... the "congregation of the firstborn,"... although he saw it as a literal building.

    Regarding God's spirit, I will tell you a vision given me by my Lord. It is the one that helped me to understand holy spirit and where it is:

    I was taken in the spirit to a place that is not of this "world." I know it was not because (1) it was inside a grecian temple like structure, round, with columns all around, and (2) outside it was pitch black (thick gloom). There were no windows... it was all "open air"... and yet, there was no "air"... no "weather". I was not alone... there were... the only word I can think of is "myriads" of others... and we were all dressed in, well, "white robes." Only... they weren't made of fabric, but of... substance. Some transparent, transluscent substance, which you could see through. But... you could not see the wearers' bodies.

    All of us had a tiny little flame above our heads... and as I had just noticed the flames, I heard a loud voice (I do not recall what it said; I think I did not understand the language), but it caused us ALL to look up (it was extraordinarily loud!). At the moment that I looked up, I was instantly taken from that place, to the wilderness of Sinai, just across the Red Sea (I could not see the Red Sea, but I could SMELL it, somewhere behind us, in the distance). There were... well, it seemed like a "myriad" of people there with me, as well as animals (goats, donkeys, camels and oxen). I know I was there because, like I said, not only could I see and hear everything... but I could SMELL everything. And... it smelled. Pretty bad, too. Like animals... and people... and... well, food. Like an ancient camp would. (I now understand that "we" did not yet know HOW to "camp"... and that was why the stench was so bad.)

    As I was watching the people, trying to figure out just what was going on, I noticed them all looking in one direction, and I turned to look, too, and saw a great pillar of fire... HUGE... but not fire like we know of here, not your run-of-the-mill bright orange/blue wood-type fire. This was a brighter blaze, "whiter" (but not white)... shimmering and, how do you say... I can't say... I don't know how to describe it. But it was fire... and it was hovering above us... in front of us. I gathered that it had been moving... but had stopped... and so, then, had we.

    Almost as soon as I noticed the great pillar of fire... I was taken to another place... an upstairs room that was dark-ish... and there were some people there... about 30-40 (not 120!). It was someone's home, a large room in someone's home, and as I stood there, I could hear and feel a "wind." As I heard and felt the wind, I was taken to a place above the city of Jerusalem, above the temple, and it was some time before, like months, years. I saw the same pillar of fire above the temple... MOVE... and travel... and dissipate. At that moment, I was taken BACK to the dark room... BACK were I felt the wind... and the next thing I knew, there were little pillars of fire over everyone's head, including mine.

    Immediately, I was taken BACK to the grecian looking temple... where the myriads in white were... standing again with a flame over my head... looking up... toward the loud voice. In that instant... ALL the flames merged, combined... began to swirl and combined to form ONE large pillar of fire... the one I had seen in the wilderness and leaving the temple. As it swirled, it come down upon us all, enveloping us all. And it was strange, because although it WAS fire... it was not hot. Not even warm. It didn't burn us or anything like that. Instead, it was like it... "washed" us... washed OVER us... and filled us. It was everywhere. In us and around us.

    It was THEN that I understood... completely... how God's spirit had LEFT the temple... and began to reside in the PEOPLE... that WE had become the temple... and that when the temple was "completed"... those little flames would again become one flame... and God... would become ALL things to us.

    I have learned that how the visions work is that sometimes the one who records them does not completely understand what he/she is seeing or why. In some cases, it is a later one that get the "revelation." Now, I understand how that would confuse some... even anger some... but that's how it works. Since God's thoughts are higher than mine, I don't really question it. I mean, I sometimes have a bit of curiosity, but I don't dwell on it too long, 'cause dwelling on it isn't necessarily going to compel Him to reveal it... through Christ, of course. They do what they do, as they do... for reasons known to them. Eventually, however, they DO reveal it. Nothing is always kept secret. It's just that some things are for another time, to be revealed in another time.

    Anyway, that Ezekiel saw the temple as a physical building should not be surprising: David built the physical city of Jerusalem, and his son, Solomon, the physical temple. Yet, David, and virtually all of the prophets spoke of the spiritual temple of God. And Abraham was awaiting "the city having real foundations, the former and maker of which is God," versus the one made by David.

    I hope this helps you, dear Sword... and I wish you peace.

    A slave of Christ,

    SJ

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    The song is one of praise to JAH... the words of which have not yet been written. That is why it is a "new" song. However, it is not the ONLY song, for the great crowd, the angels, indeed ALL creation... will sing praises to JAH.

    Psalm 146-150

    May you have peace!

    A slave of Christ,

    SJ

  • gitasatsangha
    gitasatsangha

    I thought the sang "A Day in the life" by the Beatles.

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Dearest Noko... may you have peace... and may you know that I truly do not know how to answer the first part of your question, for it is only my Lord who can say to me, "Well, done." I do not look for glory from men (for such is relatively short-lived and usually comes with great price!)... so that whatever "works" I do, then, that might be considered "good"... are not for boasting... because as a "good-for-nothing-slave," whatever I've done... is what I OUGHT to have done.

    As to why I am here, I am here because I was sent by my Lord first to one "city" were Israel "dwelled"... then to another. I was expelled from both - LOL! - for the witness that I gave. They wanted me to STOP talking about this "JahEshua" and preach no more on the basis of his name.

    My Lord eventually directed me here, and I am still here... because I have not yet been expelled. This "city", while having a bit of difficulty early on, is one where love abounds, truly. True, there are some who put me... and others... "to the test". But that is as it should be (for I, too, am earthling man... in whom we are not to put our trust). From time to time there are contentions, "sharp outbursts of anger", even maliciousness. But, for the most part... love prevails.

    I will stay... until I am sent away... or directed by my Lord to leave. And for the kindness shown me by those here - and it has been great - I will remember them when I come into the kingdom promised me by my Lord, just as he will remember me. (John 15:12)

    Again, I bid you peace.

    Your servant and a slave of Christ,

    SJ

  • Lord Zagato
    Lord Zagato

    Fr. Peter Stravinskas, S.J. replied about this for someone who asked about this. If one were to take the logical conclusion, not only would the saved be 144,000, but that they would have to be Jews as well. The 144,000 is symbolic, as someone here explained, of the fullness of the number of the redeemed. The tribes of Israel symbolizes those who have been faithful to Christ, as Jesus is the once and future King of the House of Israel.

  • Share this

    Google+
    Pinterest
    Reddit