Beliefs About What Caused the Universe (page 3)

Village Idiot

We would need to have a 4 or more dimensional mind to wrap our thoughts around this subject.

GrreatTeacher

Every Friday begins without a cause, and all rejoice.

TheLiberator

Hi Perry. I was just reading some newer articles.

http://m.phys.org/news/2015-02-big-quantum-equation-universe.html

http://earthsky.org/space/what-if-the-universe-had-no-beginning

Not saying it is true. Just ironic.

Perry

Its not ironic at all. The fact that an expanding universe requires a beginning is a big problem for Materialism..... saws it right off at the knees.

A First Cause is antithetical to Materialism, which is a growing ideology today.

“God, I believe, does not live in a Time-series at all. His life is not dribbled out moment by moment like ours: with Him it is still 1920 and already 1960…God is outside and above the Time-line. In that case, what we call ‘tomorrow’ is visible to Him in just the same way as what we call ‘today.’ All the days are ‘Now’ for Him. He does not remember you doing things yesterday; He simply sees you doing them…He does not ‘foresee’ you doing things tomorrow; He simply sees you doing them: because, though tomorrow is not yet there for you, it is for Him.” — C. S. Lewis

Mephis

Why don't we see things beginning now without causes? If they are unnecessary for beginnings, we should be able to see many examples of this.

You'd have to find another believer in God to ask Perry. I was talking of a causer, you want to talk about causes. They're not the same thing, no matter how much you'd like them to be.

OneGenTwoGroups

Perry,

Please demonstrate what caused the singularity (that the universe expanded from) to exist.

Perry

Memphis,

Then where are the beginnings which we can observe today that do not have a cause or a causer?

OGTG,

Beginnings have causes, please provide an example otherwise.

GrreatTeacher

This beginning without a cause being a problem thing is silly.

Beginnings are simply Endings of something else.

This is not a new concept and is part and parcel of hindu thought in which there is a trinity of gods, including Brahma the creator and Shiva the destroyer (as well as Vishnu the preserver).

This Trinity expresses the idea that beginnings are simply the new expression of endings. They are part and parcel of each other.

Needing a Causer is very Western thought.

Mephis

Then where are the beginnings which we can observe today that do not have a cause or a causer?

I want nothing to do with your strawman 'causes' argument Perry. Take it in a field, stick a hat on it and call it Worzel. I'd say that the universe is jam packed full of things which do not have a causer behind them. You could easily disprove me by providing evidence there was one. The standard of evidence required to do that would win you a Nobel Prize, so looking forward to it. :)

Perry

Needing a Causer is very Western thought.

Great Teacher, cause and effect is believed in globally. It is not western.

God states the difference between the nature of the universe and the nature of himself clearly in Psalms 102 -

"Of old You founded the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands. "Even they will perish, but You endure; And all of them will wear out like a garment; Like clothing You will change them and they will be changed. "But You are the same, And Your years will not come to an end"

The observable entropy of the universe is compared to the self existence of God in this passage. The universe is very big no doubt, but it is slowly running out of energy. It's cycles are not eternal.

Beliefs About What Caused the Universe

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