This thread has much in common with another which is still running and is getting quite interesting (if not heated!) :
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/51045/1.ashx
Dansk
The Christian Message - inspired of fear?
by Mandybp 37 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
Abaddon
Well, JW's are a cult operating in the form of a publishing company, so their message is as relevent to god as the Reader's Digest.
Christian message? Which one? Other than the general 'be nice to each other', it is mostly down to interpretation.
-
JT
and to be honest the underlying message seems to me to be "do this or die", no matter what part of Christianity one might be involved with.
see --you are like me --i too believe in cutting to the BOTTOM LINE- AND THAT IS THE BOTTOM LINE-
one can dress it up anyway they want with my god loves mankind, cares for mankind, but the moment you don't do as their god says HE GOT YOU ON HIS SH!t
-
JT
Well, JW's are a cult operating in the form of a publishing company, so their message is as relevent to god as the Reader's Digest.
Christian message? Which one? Other than the general 'be nice to each other', it is mostly down to interpretation.
SEE HERE WE Go again, another post who cuts to the chase- well summed up my friend it is all about what ones interpetation is- i guess the thing that makes this process amazing is rarely does an athiest INVOKE DIVINE BACKING for his point of view on a matter- yet religious belief systems by DEFAULT must do that for if not they are merely just the views of a couple guys who read a book - called it holy an proceeded to tell you what it meant and how you BEST FOLLOW it or ELSE
-
JT
Religion as practiced today deals in punishments and rewards
WHEN I READ this i just smiled cause this is so true- i can't think of one relgious belief system whereby the promise of a reward or punishment is not included in the bag of dogmas- of course only to be metted out by some divinve being----
from some tribe thinking that thunder and lightining is due to them making the gods angry to the 3 pc Brooks Bro suit wearing Preacher proclaiming that 9-11 was due to god being angry with america -
all the way to the fools who flew the plane into the WTC believing that they would be rewarded by god with lots of "Hot Coochie" in heaven
you got to love religious belief system-
-
proplog2
If religion isn't about life and death then it is a waste of time. Fear is an essential emotion. Without fear you WILL die. Mostly it is moderated to "caution" or "vigilance" "Planning" is a systematic consideration of steps that avoid significant risks.
Religion has become the repository of "fuzzy" rules that helped humans avoid a lot of long term consequences. It is easier to conceptualize the certain punishment from a pesonal GOD than to evaluate the long term consequences of cheating on your mate, stealing something that has been put in your trust, or even relaxing too much.
Fear tempers the excesses of love, rage, & curiosity. Fear is the beginning of "thought". Psalm 111:10 "The fear of Jehovah is the beginning of wisdom"
-
Abaddon
JT; what are you smoking man?
... i guess the thing that makes this process amazing is rarely does an athiest INVOKE DIVINE BACKING for his point of view on a matter
Either I have misunderstood you completely, or you have misunderstood me saying "their message is as relevent to god as the Reader's Digest". That statement no more "invokes divine backing" than saying 'ah, but Gandalf wouldn't do that' implies belief in the characters of The Lord of the Rings as real.
My comment was simply a comment that IF there were a god (in this context the Christian god), it wouldn't back a publishing company (based upon the claimed characteristics of said Christian god).
Basically, unless someone has a trick stick that turns into a snake, can do funky party tricks that save on booze bills, water-skies without a boat, or has some such validation from god, all it is is their opinion.
You can stick the whole evolution-creation is there a god arguement on hold really.
As far as I am concerned the lack of certainty in belief is illogical given the supposed character of the Christian god. The fact that there is no certainty of belief indicates not only is interpretation of the Bible's meaning down to opinion, but that the Bible itself is just a collection of various peoples' opinions, and is no more inspired than Hustler.
The alternative is that god both denies proof of its existence AND closure regarding orthodoxy of belief, which is simply too unreasonable a supposition for a god of the supposed character of the Bible... well, the second half of the Bible anyway, the god in the first half is a psychopath.
Either way the logic is clear; if there were a god, it would be as demonstrable as gravity, and there would be no doubt over his desires. Either that or god's an asshole, or so far removed from the Judaeo-Christo-Islamic god concept as a fist in the face is from a fairy tale.
Thus, the 'Christian Message', shorn of any supposed reality it might have, is just an elaborated belief structure developed over two thousand years, is interpretable any way you like, that uses fear of punishment in the hereafter as a method of control in the here and now.
-
gitasatsangha
Without fear you WILL die.
With it, you will die, anyway.
I agree religion should be practical. If it isn't practical then it is of no use whatsoever. This babyish system of rewards and boons is silly though. It leads one to feel they are powerless. It leads to duality (dvaita) which in turn can lead to fanaticism. Religion should rather tell you that you are divine and can do anything you set out to do. The greatest sin would be to wallow about saying "I am a sinner." In that case then God would be a facilitator to your addiction of weakness.
-
JT
Either I have misunderstood you completely, or you have misunderstood me saying "their message is as relevent to god as the Reader's Digest
i agree with you 110% - i was saying that followers of relious beleif system will invoke the gods as backing up their views, while an athiest doesn't invoke the gods-
it reminds me of how some jw when commenting would say;
"A CO or and Elder once said so and so"
this way it is suppose to add weight to thier comment, and for most belief system they too say "GOD" says so and so,
and we all know that if you look at all the different religions if is clear the 'god' must not know what he is talking about since many times religions invoke the SAME GOD WITH A DIFFERENT MESSAGE
your post was on point
-
Mandybp
Wow - I love you guys :) What excellent feedback and comments!
Your right JT - I do like to get to the point, cut to the chase kind of thing. I do sometimes wonder if this is typical black and white thinking though *smiles*
No more inspired than Hustler *grins* lmao - excellent comment. And I agree it does seem that the God of the OT was a psychopath, if my earthly father had been like that I sure wouldn't have wanted to do as he said, if I did it would have been because of fear. it smacks of bribery eh? Do this or you won't go to heaven kind of thing.
It kind of reminds me of parenting classes where ppl this day and age are learning to bring their children up without the harsh punishments of yesteryear - if humanity can learn to parent differently one wonders about God, his methods of parenting seem harsh to extreme (especially in the OT).
On saying this I do appreciate those replies coming from Christians. Good on you for seeing past the JW's and moving on to something personally rewarding for you.