To celebrate or not to celebrate

by Dubby 30 Replies latest jw friends

  • waiting
    waiting

    Hey Frenchy & SS,

    I went through a divorce 20 years ago. We had separated 4 different times - always drugs and women. On the one hand, I had 3 children to support, and when he wasn't druggin' and womanizing - he was ok. On the next hand, I had to find a job, and look forward to total care of my children. On the next (imaginary) hand, he & I were young, and I kept hoping the SOB would grow up. On the next hand, I was a JW with 3 kids, the liklihood of finding a mate in the Truth were extremely slim. On the last hand, he started living with 2 women. Sooo, I actually made the decision because he made it for me. And then he actually wanted to get back together. Jerk.

    However, this typifies the mind of an uncertain person and the things that go through it. Good thing I didn't have any weight to lose at that time, or it would have just been too damned traumatic to consider. If a person has never gone through a divorce with kids, no job, etc., they cannot understand the ramifications involved.

    I have yet to see any problem, however complicated, which when you looked at it in the right way, did not become still more complicated. Paul Anderson

    waiting

  • Frenchy
    Frenchy

    Waiting: I've never gone through a divorce or even a separation so I can only imagine it. The process of trying to make the right decision under very traumatic circumstances is not new to me, however. (I find it very easy to see the solution for others...but for me it always seems more complicated!) I think you did the wise and prudent thing. Hesitation when possible is the mark of maturity.

    -Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-

  • waiting
    waiting

    Hey Frenchy,

    I just read my post and your response. And realized I did not say why I had posted that - unless just to celebrate losing my jerk of a first husband......

    I posted it to show that most things are not black/white. Nothing is "that simple" - particularily if it's your life and your children's life involved. Not to mention your heart. Which that is only the beginning when we talk or think about our faith in God.

    I always get messed up when the subject of my x gets involved. Jerk.

    waiting

  • SolidSender
    SolidSender

    Frenchy - hi man. sorry about the delay getting back, last time i checked this thread i hadn't heard from anyone and i've just revisited it now. Please allow me another day or so to contemplate your comments. I'm a slow writer, I don't know about anyone else but sometimes even a simple post takes me some time. thanks for the response and i'll write to you shortly.

    Waiting - hi and ditto if that's ok? there's questions i want to ask but it takes me time to sculpt them. You are certainly a survivor.-SolidSender

  • Frenchy
    Frenchy

    Okay, solid, NP...
    waiting: I understood the purpose of your post and you are right about difficulty in making decisions particularly where emotions are involved. I think you've done a wonderful job in keeping your sanity...

    -Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-

  • SolidSender
    SolidSender

    Hi Frenchy, picking up where we left off (on a tangent to the original post):

    Is the song you're speaking of this Vince Gill one?

    [url] http://sites.netscape.net/songlyricstn/country/country_song_list/which_bridge-v_gill.html[/url]

    Maybe I didn't explain to well in my original post but it seems to me that the song you quoted and the film i quoted both deal with the same theme storytold in a different way - a head vs heart issue, or as you put it - duty vs happiness.

    Thats all I was attempting to say. Is that what you meant by your quote? If this Vince song isn't the one you mean ( i know there's heaps like it out there ) it's the same theme. Is that your perception? Let me know if you don't think so.

    Here's the first two lines of the second verse:

    I knew this was wrong, I didn't listen
    Cause a heart only knows what feels right

    The way the word "heart" is used here, this is what i'm talking about. You could also call it "the little voice inside", "better judgement", "gut feeling", "instinct", "intuition" and so on.

    when you say:

    The second hardest thing he will ever do is tell his mistress goodbye and walk away. The hardest thing he will ever do is hold his wife while he’s in love with the other woman.

    Your use of this this example to me is saying you feel that this is a duty vs happiness situation. I assume that duty = the logically correct, rational & explicable choice, an intellect based choice. On the other hand I assume you also mean happiness = the voice of the heart, an irrational inexplicable gut feeling.

    Am I reading you right so far? -SolidSender

    Solid: I’ve never seen the movie but I can relate to the scene in the barn as you described it. The woman is married and falling in love with the hired help, I’m assuming that’s the thrust of it. The decision is whether to pursue this and leave her husband or drop it and remain with her husband. Is that the choice that she is facing? If so, then whether or not it’s a simple choice is totally dependent on the person she is. Granted, the choice, i.e., stay or leave, is simple enough to state but the processes involved in making that decision is something else entirely. If you have never stood at the crossroads of decision, weighing out your own happiness against that of others in order to decide your path then I can well appreciate your viewpoint on the matter. There are times when the needs of others take precedence over our own needs and happiness. That is duty. Parents should be very aware of this as should husbands and wives. There is a song, which I think well illustrates this dilemma. I forget the singer and the writer (shame on me) but it’s the classic love triangle. The man is at his crossroads. The time has come to make the decision. Though he deeply loves his mistress, he cannot find one single thing that his wife has done wrong. She was there when times were tough, and she loves him dearly. The second hardest thing he will ever do is tell his mistress goodbye and walk away. The hardest thing he will ever do is hold his wife while he’s in love with the other woman. I truly hope that you (or anyone else for that matter) will never experience such a thing but if you can, hold that thought in your mind for a few moments and see if you can feel what he is feeling.
    It could be argued that he should follow his heart inasmuch as he will never be completely true to his wife anymore --BUT…he could never be happy even with the woman he loves knowing the pain that he has caused his wife. The cost of his freedom was too great for him to ever forget it. He will go back to his wife ( it assumed she knows nothing about this or knows and still wants him) and he will find some satisfaction in knowing that at least she is happy. He will hurt terribly knowing that the other woman will hurt just as much as him. In this terrible, no-win situation, duty (as he perceives it) wins out over happiness….because his perception of his duty will not allow happiness without it anyway. In the end, a measure of satisfaction (contentment, peace) is achieved in the performance of his duty. Such is the power of the sense of duty and responsibility, of committment.

    To a JW, his dedication to Jehovah God on the basis of what he has been taught by the WTS is stronger than his union with his mate. To leave the organization is more traumatic than a divorce. The person has to first convince himself that this organization has been 'unfaithful' and is unrepentant in its acts of 'unfaithfulness' and that this organization no longer (he believed it once did) loves him before he can detach himself emotionally and mentally from it. Even then...it is no easy task, memories remain, emotions still surface from time to time...No, my friend, there is nothing simple about it at all...

  • SolidSender
    SolidSender

    Frenchy - ooops! obviously ignore the cut and paste mistake of your original post added to mine above.-SolidSender

  • SolidSender
    SolidSender

    Frenchy - i'm feeling pretty dumb about this - if the click through to the Vince song doesn't work here's the lyric:

    Which Bridge To Cross (Which Bridge To Burn)
    Vince Gill
    Written By
    Vince Gill/Bill Anderson
    Copyright 1994

    I've got two lovers in my life now
    A true love and one that's brand new
    I'm not real sure that I know how
    To love one and tell one we're through

    (Chorus)
    I Can't sleep at night
    I toss and I turn
    I keep losing sight
    Of the lessons I've learned
    I'm standing at the crossroads
    With just one concern
    Which bridge to cross
    And which bridge to burn

    I knew this was wrong, I didn't listen
    Cause a heart only knows what feels right
    Oh, I need to reach a decision
    And get on with the rest of my life

  • Frenchy
    Frenchy

    Solid: The song I was talking about is sung by Mel McDaniels.

    Your use of this example to me is saying you feel that this is a duty vs happiness situation. I assume that duty = the logically correct, rational & explicable choice, an intellect based choice. On the other hand I assume you also mean happiness = the voice of the heart, an irrational inexplicable gut feeling.

    Yes, that’s what I mean and that for some, unless duty is observed there can be no happiness either. That ‘doing what feels good’ to the exclusion of duty brings anguish and despair in the end whereas fulfilling duty may not bring one ecstasy but satisfaction for having done the right thing, peace of mind. This does not mean there is not some ‘ache’ involved.
    I was using this to illustrate how some people cannot make a decision based solely ‘on the heart’ but that other considerations come to bear. Leaving the WTS is extremely traumatic for many even after the realization that the teachings are not necessarily correct. Also, in consideration of those that choose to remain, i.e., friends and family, many choose to stay for the sake of the association of those individuals.

    -Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-

    Edited by - Frenchy on 13 July 2000 7:1:16

  • SolidSender
    SolidSender

    Frenchy, hi man, I hope all is going well for you and that it's a lot warmer where you are at the moment then what it is here.

    Thanks for writing back. Everything you've said has been taken on board, considered and is not being ignored but for the moment the next thing I would like to say is :

    I can't speak for anyone else but based on my own experience I have found this "little voice inside" to be an extremely trustworthy & reliable guide. This has been learnt predominately at the expense of acting against it.

    What's your take on this?-SolidSender

    PS - I havn't heard of Mel McDaniels but then there's a lot of US artists we are not even aware of here.

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