Was Jesus Born on December 25th?

by Sea Breeze 34 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Sea Breeze

  Well, I have learned to examine carefully anything the Watchtower really gets excited about and presents as beyond dispute.
  
  

  Hippolytus was a disciple of Iranaeus, and he was a disciple of Polycarp, who was a disciple of the Apostel John. Around 204, Hippolytus wrote that “the first advent of our Lord in the flesh, when he was born in Bethlehem, was eight days before the Kalends of January, the fourth day [i.e., Wednesday], while Augustus was in his forty-second year [i.e., 3/2 B.C.]” (Commentary on Daniel 4:23:3). The Kalends was the first day of the month, and eight days before January 1 is December 25.

  This is the earliest record we have of Jesus’ birth being December 25. It precedes by seventy years the time the Emperor Aurelian made Sol Invictus a Roman cult, and it precedes by a hundred and fifty years the earliest claimed reference to Sol Invictus being celebrated on December 25—that claim being based on the Chronography of A.D. 354.

  So, it is possible the the Dec. 25th date was the date of his actual birth. It is certainly not out of the question like watchtower presents.

  Excellent discussion on the topic here.
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  GrreatTeacher

  WTWiz, I'm with you on this one.

  I tend toward seasonal depression which gets triggered by the short daylight. I start feeling better in February as the days get longer.

  But, the actual day that you know is the shortest day is such a huge relief. And when you actually start noticing the days getting slightly longer round about Christmas day, it feels miraculous. It really does feel like your life force is coming back. I literally follow the sun around the house during the day. I sit on a sofa in the rear of my house right next to a window first thing in the morning. Then the sun moves to the bedrooms and bathrooms so I'll hang out cleaning or whatever in those rooms while they're sunny. About dinner time the sun moves around to the living room in the front and I hang out there and in the dining room in the evenings. It literally makes me feel sad when the sun goes down for the day.

  And, merry Christmas to those who celebrate the religious or secular Christmas in addition to the pagan sun worship!
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  shepherdless

  Come on... everyone is told these days That December 25th is not really the birth date of Jesus. You can read that in lots of books, see it in tv documentaries....... the date is no longer an issue

  Totally agree. My parents were staunch Roman Catholics and I went to Catholic schools, and as kids we were taught that:

  • Jesus was born some time between 7 BC and 4 BC, probably during a winter.
  • Early Christians used to mask their celebration by putting it on the same date as a celebration of a Roman god.

  Not saying that that is 100% correct, or the full story, of course.
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  Sea Breeze

  There is some biblical evidence in support of the traditional date:

  John the Baptist’s father—Zechariah—belonged to the priestly course of Abijah (Luke 1:5), one of twenty-four priestly courses that served in a regular rotation at the temple.

  After his vision announcing the conception of John the Baptist, he returned home, and his wife, Elizabeth, became pregnant (1:23-25). Then “in the sixth month” of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, Gabriel appeared to Mary and announced the conception of Jesus (1:26-31).

  Therefore, Jesus’ birth would have occurred fifteen months after Zechariah’s service ended, and if we can determine the date that happened then we can determine the date of Jesus’ birth.

  Jack Finegan calculates that the argument would point to a birthday somewhere between December and February, lending plausibility—based on biblical evidence—to Jesus being born in the winter (Handbook of Biblical Chronology, 2nd ed., §473)
  
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  Sea Breeze

  I used to try and pop people's joy bubble at the doors parroting WT reasoning about how ignorant it was to believe sheep were grazing in Bethlehem on Dec. 25th. Yes, I was was one of those Witnesses that would go door to door on Christmas day.

  "... the most obvious evidence of the incorrectness of the December 25 date is the Scriptural fact that shepherds were in the fields tending their flocks on the night of Jesus' birth. (Lu 2:8, 12) ... and flocks were brought into protected shelters at night." (WB&TS, 1988, Ibid, p.2:58).
  
  "Many people today believe that Jesus was born on December 25. But December is a rainy, cold season in Bethlehem. Shepherds would not be out in the fields overnight with their flocks at that time of the year." (WB&TS, 1991, Ibid, Ch. 5).
  
  "Moreover, at the time of his birth, shepherds were "living out of doors and keeping watches in the night over their flocks." (Luke 2:8) In the land of Israel, late December is a cold, rainy season during which sheep would be kept in shelters overnight to protect them from the winter weather." (WB&TS, 1995, Ibid, p.126).

  Thanks to the Internet, current weather in Bethlehem is now easily checked. Looks like New Year's Day in Bethlehem, Israel will be quite pleasant.... Sunny with a high of 62 and a low of 44.
  

  I live very close to the same latitude as Bethlehem, Israel here in Texas. The high next Tuesday will be 79 degrees here.
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  millie210

  Nice reasoning seabreeze - I was like you with my earnest obnoxiousness lol, trying to help people "see".

  Wasn't there also a line of reasoning from Daniel 9:27 about gift offerings to cease at the half of the year. The times being mentioned there was 7 years. and apparently, it had a greater application in the death of Jesus at which time there would be no more need for gift offerings. That also would place his birth in the fall/autumn.
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  Lost in the fog

  Don't you think it's funny how the witnesses can buy an old church, renovate it, and then re-dedicate it as a house for Jehovah.

  However when the early Christian churches took a pagan sun festival and re-dedicated it to their own son of God birthday - the witnesses now point the finger at the churches and criticise them.
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  Rivergang

  According to the website www.weather-and-climate.com, average December temperatures in Bethlehem range between a daily high of 14 degrees C and an overnight low of 7. Also, its climate is influenced by the Mediterranean effect, which produces summer drought and winter rain. As a consequence, one fifth of its annual rainfall (111 mm) falls during December, resulting in an average of six rainy days for that month.

  Latitude is not the only thing which determines climate. Other factors are also at play, including altitude. Bethlehem is 775 metres (2,543 feet) above sea level - something which needs to be considered when comparing it with other places of similar latitude. Reflecting its higher altitude, some of Bethlehem's precipitation falls as snow, and on average the month of December sees one day of snowfall.

  While some may describe an overnight low of 7 Deg.C (44.6 Deg.F) as being "mild", it is hardly conducive to sleeping out under the stars - particularly if there is also a good chance of precipitation, whether in the form of rain or snow.

  Furthermore, these "average" air temperatures are measured under standard conditions - inside an enclosure known as a "Stevenson Screen", which is mounted four feet above the ground. This temperature can be quite different from the ground - or "grass" - temperature, which is more applicable to anybody camping out in the open (as the shepherds of Jesus's time were described as doing).

  In terms of both latitude and altitude, Bethlehem is similar to Australia's New England Plateau region. Around the towns of Glen Innes and Inverell, one does not willingly camp out in the open during the southern hemisphere's equivalent of December!

  Although extremely distrustful of anything the JWs / WTS have ever said, on this particular matter, they way well have a point!
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  Jeffro

  Assuming Jesus existed at all, the ‘nativity’ stories in Matthew and Luke are later inventions, so the claims about shepherds being outdoors at the time would have no bearing on the actual time of his birth.
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  Jeffro

  Millie210:

  Wasn't there also a line of reasoning from Daniel 9:27 about gift offerings to cease at the half of the year. The times being mentioned there was 7 years. and apparently, it had a greater application in the death of Jesus at which time there would be no more need for gift offerings.

  JWs do say that, but it completely misrepresents Daniel. The ‘leader’ in that passage was Antiochus IV Epiphanes. But aside from the specifics, the passage indicates the ‘leader’ to be an enemy of Jerusalem and not the same person as the ‘messiah’. Verse 26 says ‘messiah’ is cut off at the end of 62 weeks, not at ‘the half of the week’ as falsely claimed by JWs.

  JWs use the same passage to falsely claim that Jesus died in 33CE (counting ‘62 weeks’ from an invalid starting point), which also has no basis in fact. It is more likely that he was born in 4BCE and died 30CE.