EITHER or NEITHER or BOTH? FORGIVENESS vs ATONEMENT

by Terry 12 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • TheWonderofYou
    TheWonderofYou

    Terry, I cant yet answer your question about the differences between Mark and Luke but I stumbled about this one, where Jesus used the "DEBTS" illustration too.


    In the „Parable of the wicked slave“ God's standard and willingness to forgive is addressed.

    Gods behave is an example for man. In jewish faith mercy, benevolence and readiness to forgive are ordered to man. Jesus illustrated the personal failures or transgressions as „debts“.

    What is remarkable about God in the parable is that the „king“ released the „wicked slave“ or "unmerciful obligee"

    from an awesome unimaginable high sum of debts (10000 talents* ~ USD 40 Mio. )

    compared to the insignificant 100 denarii. (~ USD 70)

    One matter is clear Gods standard is forgiveness.

    The "wicked slave" does not forgive, comparable to a wicked slave class of people that we know well, the wicked slave class perhaps really exists.


    Read the text as in NASB

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew+18%2C23&version=NASB


    For this reason the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his slaves. When he had begun to settle them, one who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him. But since he did not have the means to repay, his lord commanded him to be sold, along with his wife and children and all that he had, and repayment to be made. So the slave fell to the ground and prostrated himself before him, saying, ‘Have patience with me and I will repay you everything.’

    And the lord of that slave felt compassion and released him and forgave him the debt. But that slave went out and found one of his fellow slaves who owed him a hundred denarii; and he seized him and began to choke him, saying, ‘Pay back what you owe. So his fellow slave fell to the ground and began to plead with him, saying, ‘Have patience with me and I will repay you.’But he was unwilling and went and threw him in prison until he should pay back what was owed.
    So when his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were deeply grieved and came and reported to their lord all that had happened. Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

  • Terry
    Terry

    I've often pondered the nature of sin vs. forgiveness.

    Sin, it seems to me, is almost entirely about God being offended by inferior creatures.

    Human nature, scientifically speaking, is built mostly upon animal nature.

    The fact that human's have developed empathy, social support, charity, education, and structures for justice and law indicates

    WE TRY.

    We humans aren't just (as our forebears) trying to appease angry supernatural temper tantrums. Humanity has a yearning to improve. Yet biblically, none of our efforts make any difference to God. No matter how hard we try we fall short.

    The question is this:

    WHY DOES GOD EXPECT US TO PERFORM OUTSIDE THE BOUNDARY OF OUR HUMAN NATURE?

    Naturally, I think we have superimposed this dilemma upon ourselves.

    1. We don't want to die, so we invent a means of escaping death through transcendence.

    2. We assign 'agency' to transcendence in the person of God.

    3. We project human qualities on God and fall victim to arbitrary compulsion toward perfection.

    Sin and Forgiveness are the results of over-thinking our escape plan.

    The pettiness of God's elaborate OCD salvation methodology (human sacrifice) is an outgrowth of

    those very human qualities we seek to escape in ourselves.

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    dear Terry...

    If "we" = humanity then 1, 2 and 3 are not true of everyone and neither is the desire to be forgiven a trespass. The idea that "humanity" has a yearning to improve is false. improvement is relative to individual standards not at all about a set of "given standards" to be attained by humanity. "we" is corporate identity which simply doesn't reflect the reality of "humanity" as we know it.

    God deals with individuals and so He levelled the playing field in Christ.

    God sees us...doing things to appease Him isn't going to get us anywhere. Psalm 51:16-17

    love michelle

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit