Was Sin Inevitable? (page 6)

Carmichael

First off, I am not a boy.

Second, you are not answering my question.

If you fail to answer my question one more time, I am going to assume you are just evading and incapable or incompetent.

Carmichael

Carmichael is the name of where I live. I am not named Carmichael or Michael. Preconceived sexism is another problem you have.

Carmichael

You could have at least just stepped on here to say oops or start off, but all I can imagine is you are either ranting or you ran off.

I don't have time for this.

Enjoy the people on this forum. I hope they don't, but I think they might eat you alive, so to speak. I'm leaving because you are good at insulting my integrity and sensibilities.

Religion is a delusional person’s conception of what an imaginary “supreme being” thinks of him and everyone else. It’s oddly self-referential, and—when understood in that light—quite illuminating as to what it means to be human.

Considering the plethora of religious beliefs we humans have and have had over our history, all with conflicting beliefs about both WHO and WHAT “god” is, is also quite revealing when contemplated dispassionately and absent the need to be right about improbable myths and superstitious beliefs.

Let that sink in.

The fact that humans so stubbornly cling to convoluted, internally incoherent and inherently contradictory narratives about our alleged origins—stories which in our modern scientific era have been utterly destroyed and proved false—demonstrates that the vast majority of people would rather believe nonsense than accept reality and facts as they actually are.

There are billions of “True Believers” on this planet who can’t agree on pretty much anything important about “god” or religion, and yet everyone of them thinks they’re right and everyone else is wrong. Their arrogance and hubris is only exceeded by their ignorant refusal to face facts.

You should let that sink in as well!

Even a cursory study of history shows that the vast majority of human conflicts have been caused by false beliefs about god’s, other people and our place in the grand scheme of things.

Or, as George Carlin so eloquently put it: “It’s all bullshit and it’s bad for you!”

Carmichael

While I personally don’t believe in supernatural deities or that the Bible is anything more than the mythos of my people the Jews, I do want to point out the problematic fallacy that was raised jp1692--and that you hear too often from atheists who are just misinformed. Again, I am a humanist myself, but this is absolutely problematic and just not logical.

Too often when atheists argue religion they attribute their belief system to logic but the belief systems of the religious to mental health--i.e., religious people engage in religion because, as jp1692 puts it:

Religion is a delusional person’s conception….humans so stubbornly cling to convoluted, internally incoherent and inherently contradictory narratives about our alleged origins….as George Carlin so eloquently put it: “It’s all bullshit and it’s bad for you!”

But when they talk about their beliefs, too many atheists say that what they believe is aligned with science, logic, and good mental health:

...our modern scientific era have been utterly destroyed and proved false...Even a cursory study of history shows that the vast majority of human conflicts have been caused by false beliefs about god’s.

You cannot disprove religion by attributing motive or adding a label of poor mental health. The truth of the matter is you can only disprove a religious belief by disproving doctrine. There are many people who are very logical, who have very stable and open minds and have no mental health issues who are very religious and history is filled with them. We rub elbows with these stable people every day. By the same argument made by jp1692, this would make their religious beliefs true--and this isn’t right either.

I’m a Jew not because being Jewish is a religion but because I’ve been born into a Jewish lineage. I embrace Jewish custom because so many people over history have attempted to destroy it--and because it is who I am. My identity and customs come from religious practices, true, but as a humanist, I don’t believe in a personal God. The Jewish religion still can’t be bad because it shaped my society. Claiming that “it’s all bullshit and it’s bad for you” is the stuff of anti-semitism in my case.

And I would never claim that for any of my other religious neighbors, not even the Jehovah’s Witnesses I grew up to be. So if you’re going to argue against religion, do me and your fellow humanists a favor. Be logical. Argue smartly.

Being atheist, agnostic or humanist is no proof you have no mental health issues or don't belong in a mental hospital. It doesn't make you immune from becoming unreasonable either.

jp1692

The definition of delusion is: a false belief that is based on an incorrect interpretation of reality (Harvard Health Publishing, Harvard Medical School).

Or, alternately from Merriam-Webster: Delusion - a persistent false psychotic belief regarding the self or persons or objects outside the self that is maintained despite indisputable evidence to the contrary.

It's what the word means. If you don't like it, then take it up with Harvard Medical School and Merriam-Webster.

Next, you confuse religious beliefs with ethnicity and culture. They're different even if the same word is used to refer to both in some cases. I know many Jewish people who are atheists, but love their culture.

Also next, George Carlin was raised as a Catholic. His comedic roasting of absurd religious beliefs primarily applied to Catholicism. That being said, if you find that it applies to other belief systems that would not be surprising.

Finally, I am a scientist. I teach biology, chemistry, physics and psychology at the secondary level.

jp

Carmichael

Jp,

What false beliefs do I have?

Carmichael

jp1692:

The definition of delusion is: a false belief that is based on an incorrect interpretation of reality (Harvard Health Publishing, Harvard Medical School).
Or, alternately from Merriam-Webster: Delusion - a persistent false psychotic belief regarding the self or persons or objects outside the self that is maintained despite indisputable evidence to the contrary.
It's what the word means. If you don't like it, then take it up with Harvard Medical School and Merriam-Webster.

Harvard Health Publishing and Merriam-Webster are not the same as DSM-5 (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders). It is the DSM that defines mental health, not the dictionary.

Until the DSM states that religious beliefs are mental health disorders and delusions (delusions are medical, by the way, not subjective as your statements are) they aren't. To use your words. "if you don't like it, then take it up with" the doctors behind the DSM.

Any scientist knows that mental health delusions are listed in DSM, not Merriam-Webster.

jp1692

Whatever dude! Go talk to someone that cares.

pistolpete

Carmichael
According to the Gospel accounts, most of what Jesus does is in secret, such as his healings and when he raises the dead. He impresses heavily upon others not to tell the public that they know he is the Messiah. And when he is glorified in the Transfiguration he forbids the apostles to tell anyone of the event until he is dead.
--No, Jesus sounds more like Joseph Smith who secretly received golden plates with the Book of Mormon and visions of angels, things no one else ever saw. People had to take what Smith said he had in his possession and what he claimed to have heard from heaven on faith.

Hey Carmichael,

Liked all the information you have posted on why Jews didn’t accept Jesus. I had some idea but your information cleared and added a lot of detail that I was missing. It makes sense what you said.

Also, I never considered the depth of what it meant that the Jews considered the Christians apostates of Jewish biblical text up to that point when Christians appeared.

Now I know why it’s very hard to mesh the Hebrew Scriptures with the Greek scriptures.

They don’t belong together!

Hell if only people knew this.

Perhaps they will in another 1000 years!

Was Sin Inevitable?

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