Special Public Talk - 2017

by Nicholaus Kopernicus 10 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Nicholaus Kopernicus
    Nicholaus Kopernicus
    During yesterday's public talk, I noted the speaker did not make a full reference to the first outline point following the second reference to Romans 12:21 - "But keep conquering the evil with the good".

    This first outline point as I call it, is as follows: "Be willing to forgive others whenever there is a basis for doing so". Interesting conditionality I thought! It references the AW of June 8th 1995 page 10 paras 6-7. In part it says there... "What though, if others sin against us in a more serious way, deeply injuring us? In such extreme cases... forgiveness may involve a number of issues. This would be particularly true when there is no acknowledgement of the sin, no repentance, and no apology on the part of the offender. *" The asterisk references the Insight Vol 1 page 862 which says "Christians are not required to forgive those who practice malicious, willful sin with no repentence."

    It's quite rare in my experience, for the authors at WT HQ to portray such conditionality regarding forgiveness. The speaker's complete omission of the outline point in his talk may be a reflection of the rarity of the idea in WT literature or his discomfort with it.

    During the recent zone visit to Britain, the speaker said that most JW's who are wronged in some way are wronged by other JWs. In my experience in SE England, the wrongs (to put it mildly) are perpetrated by members of BoEs. I am not aware of any such wrongdoers on BoEs who acknowledge, repent, or apologise. I know of one elder who has stated: "Elders don't do apologies"!

    Perhaps that explains why I've waited two years so far and no apology from the CoBoE! I used to think that "good things come to those who wait". Perhaps not in this case! More realistic may be the alternative cliché which says: "They who expect nothing shall not be disappointed"!
  • NikL
    NikL

    Our speaker did use the full point "Be willing to forgive others whenever there is a basis for doing so".

    I was struck by that conditionality.

    I failed to recall any scripture that makes such a distinction.

  • Scully
    Scully

    "Christians are not required to forgive those who practice malicious, willful sin with no repentence."

    Does that include The Seven Loathsome Things in Brooklyn/Warwick (and their predecessors) for bald-faced lying to the millions of JWs around the world for over a century??

  • blondie
  • NikL
    NikL

    Blondie...you are a trove of info! :-)

  • blondie
    blondie

    https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/9032/explorer-hatred-hurt-forgiveness

    In paragraph 15, under the sub-heading, WHEN IT SEEMS IMPOSSIBLE TO FORGIVE, the article stated this:

    What, though, if others sin against us in a way that inflicts the deepest of wounds, and yet there is no acknowledgement of the sin, no repentance, and no apology on the part of the offender? (Proverbs 28:13) The Scriptures clearly indicate that Jehovah does not forgive unrepentant, hardened sinners. (Hebrews 6:4-6; 10:26, 27) What about us? Insight on the Scriptures says: "Christians ae not required to forgive those who practice willful sin with no repentance. Such become God's enemies." (Volume 1, page 862) No Christian who has been a victim of extremely unjust, detestable, or heinous treatment should feel forced to forgive, or pardon, a wrongdoer who is not repentant.-Psalm 139:21, 22.

    EARLIER THAT YEAR

    *** w97 1/1 p.28***

    What if a baptized adult Christian sexually molests a child? Is the sinner so wicked that Jehovah will never forgive him? Not necessarily so. Jesus said that ‘blasphemy against the holy spirit’ was unforgivable. And Paul said that there is no sacrifice for sins left for one who practices sin willfully despite knowing the truth. (Luke 12:10; Hebrews 10:26, 27) But nowhere does the Bible say that an adult Christian who sexually abuses a child—whether incestuously or otherwise—cannot be forgiven. Indeed, his sins can be washed clean if he repents sincerely from the heart and turns his conduct around.

  • jp1692
    jp1692

    We forgive for ourselves first, the other later, if at all.

    Forgiveness is a choice, but until we forgive we cannot begin to heal. Those that hold onto anger and resentment only injure themselves.

    In my personal experience, JW's overall are not anymore forgiving than the average "worldly person," generally less so. A lack of forgiveness tends to go along with their overall judgmental nature.

  • NikL
    NikL

    What about us? Insight on the Scriptures says: "Christians ae not required to forgive those who practice willful sin with no repentance. Such become God's enemies."

    That never ceases to piss me off when they quote their own book as some sort of authority to argue their point.

  • steve2
    steve2

    What if a baptized adult Christian sexually molests a child? Is the sinner so wicked that Jehovah will never forgive him? Not necessarily so. Jesus said that ‘blasphemy against the holy spirit’ was unforgivable. And Paul said that there is no sacrifice for sins left for one who practices sin willfully despite knowing the truth. (Luke 12:10; Hebrews 10:26, 27) But nowhere does the Bible say that an adult Christian who sexually abuses a child—whether incestuously or otherwise—cannot be forgiven. Indeed, his sins can be washed clean if he repents sincerely from the heart and turns his conduct around.

    Hmmmm. Off-topic I know, but interesting that the Watchtower writers in 1995 describe child sexual abuse as "a sin" and never once say it is a heinous crime. Sure, the quote is from over twenty years ago when other religious groups would similarly fail to describe child sexual abuse as a crime but highlight it as a sin, like drunkeness and fornication (extra- or pre-marital sex between consenting adults).

    But you'd think that the sole channel of "truth" on earth would be ahead of the pack in this regard and be among the first - if not the first - to describe child sexual abuse as a serious crime. But, as the ARC showed, JW organization is now way behind the pack in this regard, only reluctantly making procedural changes to its policies on child sexual abuse because of pressure from worldly courts.

  • sparrowdown
    sparrowdown

    Sounds pretty vague "whenever there is a basis for doing ..." and what would that "basis" look like ? A public show of kissing up to the elders and accepting their counsel in true WT style "repentance" no doubt.

    Is not going to meetings "...a practise of malicious, willful, sin..." ?

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