Can you answer my questions, please?

by Sandie 16 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Sandie

  I have three questions. I would be most grateful if someone could respond for me, please. Thank you.

  1. Can Jehovah's Witnesses practice faith with the Bible as a guide, or is it crucial to include the teachings of the Watchtower Society? Can you please explain why or why not?

  2. How do you explain the biblical passages that claim Jesus is God? How do you explain His own claims to be God?

  3. Do Jehovah's Witnesses have assurance of salvation? Is there any way to achieve that?

  Thank you very much for your time.

  Sandie.
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  TonusOH

  Hi Sandie,

  1. It is my understanding that obedience to the organization leadership remains paramount for JWs. To stray from anything they teach is apostasy. As for why: they claim that their governing body is the spirit-directed faithful and discreet slave from Jesus's parable, and that Jehovah has given them the authority and guidance to provide 'meat in due season.' In other words, without them you cannot properly use the Bible as a guide.

  2. The fact that people have used the same book to promote two distinct ideas on such an important point for centuries makes me think that the book wasn't written very clearly. But I will leave it to others to make the actual case for either side.

  3. The JW belief is that you must be a member of the organization in good standing in order to be saved when Jehovah begins the war of Armageddon. There is no way to guarantee salvation aside from that. If you were a loyal JW for a long time and served faithfully, but lost your faith just before the end, you will die with the rest of the non-JWs.
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  punkofnice

  Hi Sandie- I am a non believer but here's my punt.........

  1. Can Jehovah's Witnesses practice faith with the Bible as a guide, or is it crucial to include the teachings of the Watchtower Society?

  From their own publications

  “They say that it is sufficient to read the bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home. But, strangely, through such ‘Bible reading,’ they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by Christendom’s clergy were teaching 100 years ago…”—The Watchtower, August 15, 1981, pp. 28-29

  Watchtower Corporation propaganda trumps the Bible every time...even when they pretend it doesn't. the leaders will twist Bible passages if it fits their own money and power mad agenda.

  Can you please explain why or why not?

  It's a cult. The leaders only want to be treated like rock stars with power and money. They also need money to protect sexual predators within their corporation. I refer you to the Australian Royal Commission that proves this is the case.

  2. How do you explain the biblical passages that claim Jesus is God? How do you explain His own claims to be God?

  If it's 'you' as in 'me' Unky Punky, then I don't. I think the whole Bible is just fairy tales and been used as a great big scam. I don't see evidence for a God and I've never seen anything outside the Bible that convinces me Jesus was as per Bible....if he even existed.

  3. Do Jehovah's Witnesses have assurance of salvation?

  No. they need to keep paying homage to their leaders the Governing Body(tm).

  Is there any way to achieve that?

  No one ever will. It's abstract and unreal. Just another way their leaders can obtain money, booze and power.

  Tonus has given an excellent precis. Mine is as I am, a tad brusque. I tend to be more of a cross between Nihilism and Zen.
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  Vanderhoven7

  1. No because the GB aka F&DS have written themselves into the salvation formula.

  2. This takes more time and should be a post on it's own.

  3. No, not according to JW theology.

  Hi Sandi, Welcome to the forum! You will have a great time here with Ex-JW Atheists, Agnostics, Jehovah's Witnesses and several evangelical Christians.
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  truth_b_known

  Many great answers found above. I will only comment on question #2.

  The divinity of Jesus is a creation of man and not a Gospel teaching. Any scriptures that attempt to assert Jesus' divinity are either mistranslations, scriber's mistakes, or man-made teachings. The Apostles Paul & John are notorious for this.
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  iloowy.goowy

  Hi Sandie,

  For #2, I'd like to add that the WT teaches that Jesus is the Word and "a god" with a lower case 'g' and thus fit into the category of henotheists.

  They see Almighty God as Jehovah and that Jesus was the first creation by God.

  Sort of like modern form of Arianism.

  They regard Satan, the Devil, as the god of this world and system of things.

  Jesus has been entrusted by His Father, God Almighty, with the power to defeat Satan and usher in the Kingdom of Heaven, where he with 144000 chosen and Holy Spirit anointed JWs will reign from over the Earth for a thousand years.

  To explain these teachings they have a scripture chain of proof texts taken out of context from the Bible and written about ad nauseam in their huge production of literature, audio and video training materials.
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  Ding

  1. JWs must believe the teachings of the WT because the Governing Body claims it is the only one that can properly interpret the Bible. It claims to be the "faithful and discreet slave" of Matthew 24:45, appointed by Jesus to give his true followers spiritual "meat in due season."

  2. The WT cites several passages against the deity of Christ. For example, in John 17:3 he himself calls the Father "the only true God." They cite the subordination passages, such as John 14:28, which show the Father's positional superiority over the Son. They note that Colossians 1:15 calls Jesus the "firstborn of all creation," which the WT says means that he was the first thing Jehovah created. They also note that Jesus died and ask, "If Jesus is God, who ran the universe for 3 days when he was dead."

  As Vanderhoven said, this topic merits a thread of its own. In fact, entire books have been written on this topic.

  3. Non-anointed JWs (the great crowd of other sheep) have no assurance of salvation since they believe their salvation depends on their faithfulness to Jehovah and his organization. Even after the end of the Millennial Kingdom and even if they pass the "final test" by Satan, if they sin willingly (as Adam did), Jehovah will annihilate them. So their salvation will never be 100% secure.

  It's different for the anointed 144,000 after they die because they will go to heaven and receive spirit bodies, so they will no longer be subject to temptation. Until they die, though, they could still forfeit their salvation if they are unfaithful.
  
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  enoughisenough

  # 1 in 1935 the was the Walsh trial...you can find it online . 3 heavies ( Fred Franz, Grant Suitor, Hayden Covington.) at the WT testified that witnesses had to believe the WT without question over what the Bible said or they would be kicked out and Hayden Covington testified if you didn't believe the WT you were deserving of death. Everyone should read some their testimonies... I didn't know they existed until this year. If I had read it 50 years ago, my life would have been much different. (the same holds true today...you can't question what they teach...you become a filthy apostate the God is going to destroy. (filthy apostate is a description used by JW to describe ones who wake up to the lies of the WT)

  #2 I never read where Jesus claimed to be God. I have read where he said the "Father is greater than I am" I have read where he claimed to be God's Son. I have read where Jesus is subjected to God ( 1 Cor 15:28 ) It becomes apparent that confusion has been the result of translation, or maybe it was written to confuse to start with. But I think throughout there is more evidence for a Father/Son relationship than for Jesus being almighty God. Even in creating man, it reads : let us make man in OUR image...( didn't say let me make man in my image )( Gen 1:26). There isn't anything really mysterious about a Father/son relationship, but it gets to be a real mystery to explain Jesus being God and not being able to do anything without his Father, and why would he subject himself to himself....( some will disagree- each to his own -some here don't even believe the Bible or in God) If I had never been a JW, I would still never have believed Jesus is God Almighty.

  #3 per JW-the 144000 become sealed and their eternal life is guaranteed...but the others that survive or are resurrected have to endure the final test at the end of the 1000 years.
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  Konagirl

  Hi Sandy,

  I’ll comment on #3 –

  "Do Jehovah's Witnesses have assurance of salvation?

  Is there any way to achieve that? "

  I’ll let their own forked tongue speak:

  "As Christians, we face up to similar challenges today. We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry—be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization."

  Notice the date of this statement made in the Watchtower magazine: 1990/11/1 p. 26

  Now notice this quote from their “Kingdom Ministry” made in the same month of the same year:

  "Bible students need to get acquainted with the organization of the “one flock” Jesus spoke about at John 10:16. They must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah’s organization is essential to their salvation. (Rev 7:9,10,15) Therefore, we should start directing our Bible students to the organization as soon as a Bible study is established."

  So, you ask do they have assurance of salvation? Yes, through their modern version of idolatry.

  Is there any way to achieve that? If you mean according to them, yes, through “worshipful gestures” toward the organization and its "image" upon water immersion; and by their actions as a JW in every day life. The organization is said to survive their bloody Armageddon. (Rev 13:16,4)

  Their second question that must be answered before baptism is -

  “Do you understand that your baptism identifies you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with Jehovah’s organization?”

  As they say,

  "Remember, one path will distance you from Jehovah, while the other path will lead you to the best life ever" w 13/1/15 p. 12-16

  1 John 5:21 - "Dear children, keep away from anything that might take God's place in your hearts." NLT

  (I had a photo for you of their logo with the words, "best life ever" on it, but it wouldn't take)
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  Konagirl

  "Remember, one path will distance you from Jehovah, while the other path will lead to the best life ever" w 13/1/15 p. 12-16

  To explain my use of this quote, now that I've left the organization I have distanced myself from their version of God - their "Jehovah" that required dedication to the organization. That's the path I took. The JW "Jehovah" I associate fully with their organization and its logo/image as "the best life ever", conjoined with its website logo.