by raven 70 Replies latest jw experiences
You are giving other people WAaaay too much power.
Let the PO ask his questions and make demands on your mother. Let your mother obey his orders. Let them summon you. Let your phone ring. Let all the little culties do what culties do best.
Grab yourself a Coke and a bag of popcorn and enjoy the show.
I'm getting the sense that either your Mom is telling you this so you'll go "out" yourself to the Elders (so she won't have to) or she was actually the one who reported you to the Elders and doesn't want to look like a snitch.
I'm thinking it might be best not to communicate with the Elders at all...make them come to you . Once you know your legal rights, tell your Mom that you are prepared to take legal action against anyone who tries to sully your reputation in any way. She may think twice about her actions and or relate this to the Elders and end this whole thing before it gets any further.
(Do a search of this site and read the posts of others who have given examples of warning letters to the elders from their Attorneys.)
It's a cult, that how a cult works, they do want to control you. Technically, if you have stopped attending meetings and are not calling yourself a JW they should leave you alone, but there are no hard and fast rules about how long you need to have been away, so it's entirely up to the judgement of the elders, people have been pursued for years after leaving. You can refuse to meet with the elders, they may then leave you alone or they could disfellowship you on the testimony of your mother. Realize that either way you mother (and other) may shun you.
Your choices rests how badly you want to avoid being disfellowshipped. Is it just your mother you wish to maintain contact with? Will she shun you if you are disfellowshipped? If you feel you must keep those relationships then your only option is to go to the elders and confess. Hopefully you can fake repentance enough to get reproved, but I wouldn't count on it. If you are disfellowshipped, then you will have to go through the motions to get reinstated. Are you and your boyfriend at a point where you are considering marriage? If so that could allow you to keep the relationship while still attempting to get reinstated.
Personally, I wouldn't give them the time of day, you owe those elders nothing and it's your life, I could not stomach going to a committee meeting and being treated like I was disobedient child, nor could I force myself to attend meetings, but I realize that attitude comes with consequences, and that not everyone is willing to lose those family relationships. These are horrible choices, and I feel for you, because there are no easy answers in this situation.
Something about a letterhead from an attorney, throws in a protocol, lawyer to lawyer process and privileges. Then that letter must be sent to the WT Legal Department. Slows things down. I know of a few cases where, though there wasn't a 'formal announcement' made from the platform, there still is under the current 'shunning' done. However, at least some JW parents then feel justified to speak with their grown child, since it wasn't 'announced formally.'
Timing is the key too, as once the announcement is read, then it's too late.
Best wishes!
Someone blabbed to the elder about you, but a brother with a pain killler addiction was just given a memorial at the Kingdom Hall AFTER the family already held theirs and his closest family member said she had nothing to do with the planning of it and didn't attend, what's wrong with this picture?
According to JW cult rules, they need to have 2 witnesses to a wrongdoing before they can take action.
They do have 2 witnesses: anonymous tattletale and your mom.
Result: a judicial committee will be started. You will be invited.
If you don't attend, most likely you'll be DF'ed in absentia, given that they have two witnesses to your breaking of cult rules.
If you do attend, you will be DF'ed as well unless you repent, which includes kicking you boyfriend out, visiting all meetings, and sharing all juicy sex details with the old men in the judicial committee.
I take it you don't want to kick your boyfriend out over cult rules? In fact, I hope you don't, because they have zero authority over your life.
In that case, don't attend the judicial committee as it is of no use.
Note that talking with the elders about this or attending the judicial committee is considered a sign that you still consider yourself subject to JW authority and rules, and thus increases your chance of being DFed.
If you do write a letter that states the elders, the congregation and the judicial committee have zero authority over you, and your personal life is none of their bussiness (without saying you're not a JW anymore), they might consider you faded, make a confidential record, and not DF you.
And do refer to some lawyer stuff as others mentioned: you have no authority over me, if you continue this harrrassment my lawyer will kick your ass. Or something like that.
Good luck. Hope it works out for you.
Dog I hate this cult :-(
According to JW cult rules, they need to have 2 witnesses to a wrongdoing before they can take action.
They do have 2 witnesses: anonymous tattletale and your mom.
Result: a judicial committee will be started. You will be invited.
If you don't attend, most likely you'll be DF'ed in absentia, given that they have two witnesses to your breaking of cult rules.
If you do attend, you will be DF'ed as well unless you repent, which includes kicking you boyfriend out, visiting all meetings, and sharing all juicy sex details with the old men in the judicial committee.
AA has summed up the usual procedure very well.
The single loophole that I see: Is there really is an anonymous snitch? Or, is it only your Mother? (Your 1st mistake was admitting anything to your mother!) If she is the only witness and she/they are blowing smoke up your a** about another "anonymous" witness in an attempt to get you to confess, then there really are not TWO witnesses. And, most Elders will not take action without two real witnesses.
But don't be surprised if a zealot among them will make the effort to drive the 100 miles and stalk your home overnight to see if your boyfriend spends the night with you. That would give them the second witness. Staying overnight is assumed to be the same as fornicating. (If you see someone sitting in a strange car outside your home, call the police and say you think someone is "stalking" you and you are fearful of what is going on. After all, you're a single woman living alone.)
I've personally never known of the attorney thing to work, but I read of reports of it doing so on this board. I think it would only work if the Elders advise the Service Desk that you have the financial means to sue them and cause bad publicity. And, at least in the US, you'd have to really be able to prove damage to get any positive results in a court. Religion is a sacred cow in the US and the courts don't want to set a precedent in breaking "separation of Church and State". I think they would just decide that by taking legal action against the Cong/Org you have DAd yourself by your actions. It might keep them from making the notice public during the meeting, but they would likely verbally make it known to the R&F in the Cong.
Good luck,
Doc
The greatest revenge is living a happy & successful life!
Same thing happened to my brother close to 15 years ago. He had a girl living with him and hadn't been to meetings in probably about the same amount of time, maybe more, it was a long time ago. Anyway, elders tried to hunt him down relentlessly. I didn't know where he lived, just a street, and I knocked on doors myself to find him, not to get him in trouble, but because I cared for my brother and wanted him to not be alone. He was fading. Anyway, an elder in my congregation cornered me in the KH after a meeting right in the auditorium. He demanded to know my brother's whereabouts because they wanted to "help" him. I told them that the Bible says that they are to go find their lost sheep and abandon the flock to do so. I went and found him, so why couldn't they do the same out of their love and desire to "help" him. Things got super heated, enough that another elder stepped in to calm the first down. F&@! them, I'm not there to do their dirty work for them.
Ultimately, they found out where he worked and stalked him there. They waited for him to come out of work and he was "invited" to a judicial committee meeting. If he declined, he'd be disfellowshipped in absentia. He didn't attend and that's what happened. He wanted to disappear and live his life and be left alone. That's all he ever wanted from the time he left home.
I was told even just a year from then that it's not how things worked anymore. Elders don't hunt people down that just want to leave, and I actually know someone that they never pursued that should have been DF'ed back then. It hurt me a lot that my brother was DF'ed, and this other person wasn't. I really struggled to make sense of it. My mom told me that "those whom Jehovah loves, he disciplines", and that brought me comfort as I grasped for straws way back then. It comforted me to think that maybe Jehovah loved my brother and saw something in him that would result in him coming back. Now I know that it's just selective enforcement punitive bullshit that was executed upon my brother because he was from our uber-dub family with my elder father. The other kid was left alone because his dad never really attended, his mom did occasionally, and they just never cared about them in any way so if they left, meh.....who cares. My brother though had to be made an example.
I wish I had good news for you. Here we are 15 years after my brother's ordeal and the same stuff still happens. You know how this will play out. Maybe you can threaten attorneys and stuff, I personally just think this will go down regardless as a DF'ing and you're going to have to move on with your life and leave that chapter behind regardless of what you do at this point. Maybe it works for some, but I haven't seen it work. Sometimes in life you have to let the chips fall as they may and realize that you don't have control. My wife and I DA'ed after things happened that were out of our control as the last measure of doing things on our terms, and it was great. You have choices, none are particularly great, as that's what cults do. You just have to pick what feels right to you and what you've got the strength or personality to do.
I'd give them this:
