do you believe in karma? (page 10)

still thinking

Maybe thats something you need to work on in this life apostatethunder.

I think I'm getting the hang of this karma thing...

cofty

Karma is nothing more than a child-like desire to believe in rewards and punishments.

Psalms and Proverbs are full of comforting couplets about the blessings that will come on the righteous and vice-versa. Ps.37:10,11 is a classic example.

King Solomon

Cofty says:

Karma is nothing more than a child-like desire to believe in rewards and punishments.

And as pointed out of prior pages of this thread, the flaw with the principle is that if bad things happen to someone, you must assume it was payback for something bad they had done, eg the rape victim deserved it, victims of the holocaust must've been bad, etc.

In fact, the account of Job is based on his "friends" who assumed Job did something wrong in order to be punished by God, when the whole point of the book of Job is that God works in mysterious ways, so don't even worry your pretty little head to try and figure it out. The entire story is designed to torpedo the karma concept, which obviously has problems if taken too literally (i.e. expecting there to be a perfect correlation between cause and effect).

Obviously, there's truth in the idea that people create their own opportunities in life, and people want to see "winners" and likeable people win (there's the old saying, "no one succeeds in life, without the help from others, who want them to succeed"), but you can't bank on it. As another scripture says, unforeseen circumstances befall all....

Hence why I said, pick a saying that fits the moment, but don't think there's absolute truth in ANY truism, since there's not.

Oh, and sorry to disappoint you talesin, but I was never baptized, just raised as a JW kid from about 6-12 (i drifted away, moving to my Dad's house where meeting attendence was my call). I don't think they let kids serve as elders, even if they're baptized.... ;)

dorayakii

If karma means fate or cosmic retribution, then no, I don't believe in karma...
If karma means cause and effect, then yes, I believe in it...

There is no cosmic force in my opinion which dishes out justice to those who do wrong. Many people do bad things yet never "reap what they sow", and still others live a spotless life and still have bad luck. Foetuses and babies die without having built up any karmic good or bad luck in their short lives, mass murderers, rapists and paedophiles often walk free without any retribution in their life. Karma is not a universal principle in the same way as cause and effect are. Sometimes, yes, bad things do come back to haunt you, but that is a matter of luck of the draw. If you don't know how to "cover you back" then bad things will bite you in the arse....

If you kill a person, the effect is that the person will die and there will be a few angry people who want to catch you and bring you to justice and a legal system which will imprison you.

If you kill a person secretly, hidng your tracks carefully and never being found out, there is no need to believe that any retribution will ever befall you except the guilt on your conscience.

sabastious

Karma is nothing more than a child-like desire to believe in rewards and punishments.

Karma is an ancient principle founded on data gathered over thousands of years across many dynasties. It simply asserts that it's ultimately worth it to put the golden rule first in your life. Likewise Jesus' sermon on the mount was all about the application of common sense and it's eternal rewards. All religion holds it to be an eternal truth that doing good to others will yield actual gain in return here and the hereafter. The study of that "return on investment" is what concepts like Karma are all about. Reducing this honorable principle to mere child's games is a bit... distasteful, imo.

-Sab

cofty

It simply asserts that it's ultimately worth it to put the golden rule first in your life

No it asserts far more than that.

Truth isn't about what you find tasteful Sab.

dorayakii

Life is LOADS more complicated than "what you sow you will reap". That is just a simplistic aphorism...

In real life, it is very often true, but sometimes the unexpected can happen and people get off scott-free, or people seemingly get punished for things they haven't done... Over-simplistic thinking.

In some ways the Buddhist idea of karma has been misunderstood by the classic black-and-white thinking of the "West" in general to mean some sort of cosmic retribution. It is also often misinterpreted as a platitude to those who can't get it into their head that sometimes things happen for no reason. It is somewhat superstitious thinking to believe that some "force" will balance out all wrong-doings. Reality doesn't work like that...

sabastious

No it asserts far more than that.

Why allow yourself to be caught up in all the applications of a simple concept? You can always peel them back to the simple golden rule. Deep down everybody wants to get along we just seem to require a small dose of motivation which is provided in belief that benefiting others yields benefit to self. Obviously bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people. But when that happens the people around it always feel compelled to retribute at some point. So, we still see the same law, but it sometimes has a wider application. That's why continuing study of it is necessary.

-Sab

cofty

If that's all you mean Sab don't complicate things by using the word karma.

do you believe in karma?

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