My Beliefs After Leaving the Watchtower

by KalebOutWest 25 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  KalebOutWest

  I tend to keep my personal beliefs separate from my posts.

  I know that is often different from others as their posts as often one and the same with their opinions.

  I think that is good. You get to learn a lot about people that way. I tend not to do that because I don't think that my personal beliefs or opinions can help people. But I occasionally do state my personal view at times but only with a comment stating that I am doing so.

  My only interest was to originally help discuss Watchtower subjects and those associated with the Bible from a critical perspective. I've been asked if I believe the following regarding Judaism since I was born to Jewish parents, so I thought I would give answers here:

  Q: Do you believe that ancient Jews viewed the Biblical stories and characters as allegorical, like modern Jews do?

  No. I don't. And not all modern Jews believe this either. Judaism is a culture or civilization and the individuals are subject to a spectrum of beliefs. In the past, more Jews took most of these stories as literal truth, but it depends on which story you have in. According to Jewish tradition and the Talmud some stories have always been seen as metaphor by many--but by no means all, like Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, while Adam and Eve were believed to be historical. Today you have to ask individual Jews what they believe as it is not based merely on denominational differences. There has never been a complete consensus however. I don't have a personal view on what Jews believed in the past or believe today.

  Q: Do you believe that Jews had various beliefs in the past?

  It is scholars, rabbis and academics who teach Jewish pluralism. It has little to do with "beliefs" as with Christianity but more to do with Jewish practices (as in whether one keeps kosher or not). There has always been various ways and differences in Jewish practices which led to denominational splitting such as during the time of Jesus. This pluralism goes back further and stayed within Judaism to the point that it created the Reform Movement in the 1800s, the Conservative denomination in response to that, and on and on.

  This has nothing to do with my personal beliefs.

  Q: When did you leave the Watchtower? Do you try to preach or recruit still? Do you believe Jews are the chosen people?

  June 1995.

  I am not engaged in evangelism.

  I don't believe that as a Jew that I am in a special covenant with God that makes me far more special than any other people on the planet or that I have the true religion.
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  dropoffyourkeylee

  Thanks KOW,

  There are a handful of posters whose posts I always take time to read, and you are one of them.
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  LongHairGal

  KALEB OUT WEST:

  Right now, my beliefs after leaving the Witnesses are pretty much agnostic.

  For several years after I initially walked away from the religion, I still believed in the Bible. I might still ‘respect’ it and people who believe in it, but that’s about it.. One thing is for sure: I am happy to be out of the JWs.. After the shock of all those changed or discarded teachings at their 2023 annual meeting - I’m glad today in retirement I paid NO attention to their meddling years ago…especially regarding my employment!
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  KalebOutWest

  dropoffyourkeylee:

  Thanks. I appreciate that.

  LongHairGal:

  I get that.

  I too do not recognize the Watchtower these days. I've bumped into a few of my "friends" from the 1980s. Those who are still in the organization look like zombies...fat, poor, struggling zombies. But these people have either ballooned or look so tired or lost. We all age, but YIKES! No care for themselves since they believed they were "never going to grow old" in this "system of things." (I realize now how I never use that phrase in real life.)
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  LongHairGal

  KALEB OUT WEST:

  I know what you mean about your observations of Witnesses you knew from way back. Some have obviously not taken care of themselves physically and/or did not prepare financially for their senior years.

  I would not want to be around any of these JWs now. In addition to not wanting them asking for $$👎.. I do not want to hear them bellyaching about how they wish this ‘old system’ was over.. I take one day at a time and enjoy simple things.. I don’t need Witnesses’ depressing/unhealthy thinking around me sapping whatever joy I might have.
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  KalebOutWest

  Q: Do you believe any of the posters on here are antisemitic?

  Posting something that I point out as being academically unsound is not the same thing as being or proves that someone is antisemitic.

  If I state that something is insulting, I might be saying it insults me personally. If I say something is antisemitic, it is because I have run it by enough people in the Jewish community (yes, if I think a post on here is questionable, I will in the future show it to rabbis and Jewish theologians for their opinion before I go there) and thus I will be speaking from more than my personal experience.

  But I think people hear the "antisemitic" claim more than my literal use of the word.

  Now even if someone might ever accidentally or purposefully get mad and say something very hurtful towards me or my community, and they have even here (yet I do not believe anyone here has ever knowingly or purposefully used an antisemitic slur), there is a real difference between emotions stirring and someone being antisemitic. I have only come face-to-face with an actual antisemitic individual once in my lifetime, and that was very different and frightening. It was some years ago before ever coming to this forum.

  I do not believe anyone here on this forum is an antisemitic individual. Jehovah's Witnesses, even for all their gross faults due to their having gone through the Holocaust with the Jews are the least likely to be antisemitic. Not liking the Bible or anything to do with religion itself after leaving the Watchtower is not the same thing as antisemitism. Disagreement with me is not the same thing as antisemitism. Insulting Kaleb personally is not (necessarily) antisemitism.

  There are a couple of people on this forum who actively disagree with me here. They are intelligent nonetheless, and it is their right. But their differences do not make them antisemitic. I would say differences of opinion are a sign of an enlightened conscience.
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  Ugot2bekiddingme1

  As a Joke/for real I have joined The Church of The Invisible Flying Spaghetti Monster. No meetings, alot of parties. Fun people.
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  KalebOutWest

  Ugot2bekiddingme1:

  I am a member of Secular Humanistic Judaism.

  While I was raised in Conservative Judaism before I lived among the Witnesses for that odd decade of Watchtower life, I returned via Reconstructionist Judaism--but their theology threw me for a loop (it's sort of an excuse for quasi-atheism from folks who do not wish to let go of "God" tropes).

  I turned to Humanistic Judaism due to my love for critical studies. While theism and religious dogma take a back seat to rational thinking and ethical studies, it allows Jews to keep their culture and observe their holidays. So it is similar to what you describe except it is based in Jewish philosophy and considered an official denomination of Judaism, albeit a secular one.

  Lots of parties, fun people. But we also meet regularly. We have rabbis, but they are Humanistic.

  I think it's good to join something. Being a person that stands for nothing, has no community, believes in nothing (you don't have to believe in a deity--you can believe in a cause, for example), someone in a vacuum will only be meaningless. You can't make a life by merely making fun of others and tearing down where you came from forever. You have to have a reason to exist, to get up every morning. Otherwise why be here?

  So it's good to join stuff, even if it's just for fun. Make life fun!
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  ukpimo

  Thank you KalebOutWest

  I do find this post really interesting and this has taught me a few new things. I'm interested in knowing your thoughts on the following matter, please don't take any offense at all. I'm simply interested.

  Are there some elements of JW culture shared with Jewish culture? For instance, is the elder arrangement and how brothers view "appointed men" in the org very similar to how Jews revere their leaders?
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  ukpimo

  I don't believe that as a Jew that I am in a special covenant with God that makes me far more special than any other people on the planet or that I have the true religion.

  I wanted to comment on this point. I think many Jews feel this way today due to the fact that Judaism is more of a cultural identity rather than an organized religion now, similar to Sikhism. Even Islam is becoming more like this. I believe jws are also attempting to be assimilated into society as a cultural identity rather than simply a religion. You will get more joining your faith if you're more about people and less about God.