What did President Trump say about Sweden?

by kpop 236 Replies latest social current

• 

  bohm

  freemindfade:

  Well, Syria is a warzone... if I lived in Syria my first priority would be to get the hell out of there.

  I agree (strict adherence) to Islam is detrimental to integration in society and this likely explains some of the difference in outcome between how different groups integrate. But with that said, it is important to recognize there is a difference in what kind of Islam they adhere to and their cultural background. In my experience, Iranians and Iraqis have it easier while Moroccans are tougher customers. I too have seen the problems of integration on first hand, but I also have experience with Muslims who are regular, hard working people.

  This:

  but the reality that people who hold on to Islam as a religion, PLUS as a political, life permitting ideology to cult-like levels, are not going to have peaceful integration
  

  I completely agree with. Islam as it is practiced in e.g. Saudi Arabia is not compatible with western values at all.

  You know I had to be a pain in the ass so I went to read the original news article in Sweden about the asylum seekers and jobs. In the nordic countries, you need a work permit to get a job (remember that everything is much more formally organized in the nordic countries with regards to jobs and benefits), and apparently they are very far behind in issuing work permits for asylum seekers.

  http://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/162-000-kom-till-sverige-500-fick-jobb
• 

  slimboyfat

  What did president Trump say?

  He claimed an incident happened in Sweden that didn't happen.

  What did the OP do?

  It tried to muddy the watters by implying that president Trump isn't as stupid as he sounds.
• 

  freemindfade

  He claimed an incident happened in Sweden that didn't happen.

  yes... and no... lol

  He was unclear at best, but clarified via his own news channel, twitter
• 

  Ruby456

  No wonder that he gets things wrong - he listens to Fox News for goodness sake
• 

  freemindfade

  I completely agree with. Islam as it is practiced in e.g. Saudi Arabia is not compatible with western values at all.

  I think it's important to recognize a difference between someone claiming to be a Muslim, and an Islamist.

  I think there are Muslims detached from the Islamic political ideology, but not many coming from Syria, Iraq and so on that lived under the theocracy.

  I almost think it's like someone who studies with JWs, or was raised as one, but never got baptized, then someone asks them their religion, and they say JW, they aren't really deep in fundamentalist jws.
• 

  Ruby456

  Indeed there was an attack in Sweden last month - it was by neo nazis who attacked a refugee centre according to the independent newspaper
• 

  bohm

  freemindfade: I have tried to make exactly that distinction (a moderate Muslim vs. an Islamist, moderate Islam vs. Islamism) for a week on this forum and I get called a left-winger every time; be careful!

  One thing worth mentioning is that Iraq was relatively secular in the early Saddam years and (in my experience) Iraqis are not likely to be hardcore Islamists. I don't have any numbers on this though.
• 

  Hecce

  The US has a great deal of experience dealing with refugees, after WII they did it continually for almost 50 years. The admission rules were very strict, intense vetting and preferential treatment for families; unmarried males were placed at the bottom of the list.

  From what I read it seems like in Europe they had admitted with no vetting a whole bunch of single, younger males; if after that they have no opportunity of holding a job you have a formula for disaster.
• 

  freemindfade

  freemindfade: I have tried to make exactly that distinction (a moderate Muslim vs. an Islamist, moderate Islam vs. Islamism) for a week on this forum and I get called a left-winger every time; be careful!

  It's a tough subject. The moderates have a huge role in insulating the radical fundamentalists IMO. This obsession we have created with not criticizing Islam is protecting the fundamentalists. So I understand the slippery slope.

  Case and point, Maajid Nawaz, someone who's activism (much like an exjw activist, or a leah remini with Scientology), his voice could go a long way in changing the religion, but he is silenced by who? Extremists? no by moderates, and institutions in America. He has been put on the SPLC list of anti-islamic extremists... that is insane! He is also not welcome to speak on CNN as far as I know, can't confirm it, but I know he is not liked.

  So while there is a difference between a 'Muslim' and an 'Islamist' its time the moderates step up to clean their own house, and they do that by allowing the religion to be subject to criticism, satire and free speech.
• 

  LoveUniHateExams

  I have tried to make exactly that distinction (a moderate Muslim vs. an Islamist, moderate Islam vs. Islamism) - yes, there are moderate Muslims and Islamists.

  But there is only Islam (not moderate Islam and Islamism) behind both groups. The Qur'an and Hadiths are used by both groups.

  Furthermore, things aren't quite so black and white as the above.

  In addition to moderate Muslims and Islamists, you also have devout conservative Muslims who, while not prepared to commit atrocities, may have some sympathy with terrorists and may want Sharia to dominate whichever Western country they live in.

  but he is silenced by who? Extremists? no by moderates - quite right. If he was silenced by extremists, he's be in a wooden box.