by Fisherman 60 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
About 20000 earthquakes are recorded per year, worldwide.
There is no evidence that number has changed for centuries. Or millennia.
Anyone living in the middle east in 33ad would have no clue about major earthquakes happening in other parts of the world.
The only notable earthquake I could find in the first century was pompeii in 62ad. Maybe there was more seismic activity than usual around that time for the area?
All in the insights book ( which is on JW.org)
I guess if the sign doesn't manifest in any notable fashion, one must reinterpret the sign.
Jewish eschatology generally anticipated divine interventions at a point of terrible suffering of Israel. IOW God would rescue them when they needed him most. As I read the mini apocalypse in Mark, the author was simply saying the same again.
The dark period of the decades surrounding 70, inspired the eschatological anticipations similar to those of the century before when they faced Antichus and then Pompey. Similar to the many times previous that they faced times of great suffering by war, food shortage, disease.
Earthquakes are possibly explainable by the earthquakes that had happened in the Mediterranean region, but I'm suspecting the author had in mind earthquakes such as supernaturally caused. Matthew specifically added an earthquake in the death scene. It is accompanied with a mass resurrection. That suggests to me that that redactor of Mark thought the earthquakes mentioned by the author of Mark were assumed supernatural.
Today, I stopped counting at 35 earthquakes “one after another” same every day but prior to this time period we had no way of confirming.
Perhaps not only look at one aspect of the sign, look at all of them. I would say there is definitely an increase of amount and intensity. Because there's more independent nations, there's more "rebellions." Lots of conflicts over the years, but not world wars as such. Because of the increase in people, millions are facing famine. What is still outstanding is the "terrifying sights and great signs from heaven."
9 And when you hear of wars and rebellions, do not be afraid. For these things must happen first, but the end will not come at once."
10 Then he said to them, "Nation will rise up in arms against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.
11 There will be great earthquakes, and famines and plagues in various places, and there will be terrifying sights and great signs from heaven. (Lk. 21:9-11 NET)
@ Fisherman & others: "...the sign of the last days..."
Almost 2000 years ago, John wrote, "Furthermore, the world is passing away..." (1 John 2:17)
The day I was born (several decades ago) I began "passing away" - but I wasn't in my "last days."
If a doctor finds signs/proof that I've got a terminal illness which is about to cut me down, then I'll know that I'm in my "last days."
If/when we see Biblical/divine evidence* (not 140 + years of speculation) that the prophesied "last days" have started, the whole world will become aware - not just Christians. (IMO)
* Revelation 17:17 assures Bible readers that the governments of the world will delegate some of their authority & decision making powers to a singular new entity. (something similar to what many non-believers think today. NWO?)
I believe that the events described in Matt 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 refer primarily to the time, the beginning of the reign of the Beast, whose reign culminates in the destruction of Babylon the Great, which will be destroyed by the last, eighth king, the Antichrist rising from the Ten Horns (ten kings). The 42 months will be marked by an almost successful attempt to establish the total reign of the Antichrist...
For these and other reasons, I am convinced that these are events deep in the time of Revelation (they still need to preach for 1260 days beforehand, 2 symbolic witnesses, etc.), and which are far from occurring.
Literal wars, famines, or pandemics, may be given as signs of Christ's imminent reign, but false Christs are also signs. But wars or lie-messiahs were always there. And so they will be in the time of Christ's truly approaching Lordship. But since this is almost a permanent condition on earth, as an indication it is an unreliable measure. Similar to Paul writing that men will become evil in the end times. When were they good?
So there must be a more reliable tool to determine the time...
My interpretation is that the 7 churches in Revelation represent the state of Christianity (outside of ancient realities) at the time just before the coming of Christ. It's a very dismal state of affairs. Christians are languishing under the domination of powerful, false apostles. But there are also people who, like Antipas, have the approval of Christ. This gives hope that at least as individuals or as small groups, islands, they will exist locally as the true Christians.
For me, then, Revelation begins with the four angelic horsemen riding out. And they ride out into the field of the Lord. To reap the first harvest. Separating the wheat from the chaff. Remind the Lord's law. Do no harm to the meek. The colors of the horses of these riders are the same symbolic colors as the colors of the leprosy plagues of the Mosaic Law. Anyone on whom a "wound" appears will be forced to go to a priest (i.e., turn to Christ) and only he will decide if it is a wound and if he must isolate and purify himself. Or he will be all white, and Christ will pronounce him clean.
So these horsemen have several tasks, and if one does not respond to them, he will have several more chances to change. But it will be better if the Lord finds no stain on him, or even such a stain that his "house" will have to be entirely destroyed.
The sword, hunger, death, and wild animals mark the results of the horsemen's action: they separate the Spirit by the sword, cause death ("death" as in ending one's relationship with the world), cause hunger (for the true Word of God), and prepare some for martyrdom by the animals. It is the completion of the work, so that such wheat can be the first, fine flour, as a "sacrificial" offering to God, but also grain, for sowing, where one will yield 30, 60 or 100 times...over the years to come, the amount of symbolic wheat will grow geometrically. Therefore, the Lord at the end of the 6 trumpets, concludes the number of 144,000 women and men.
Judgment, then, will begin with the Christians, the true as well as the false.
So when the centuries-old Christian systems, as well as their latest variants, begin to collapse, when the "wounds" on the "fruit" are manifested, then "it", has come. The horsemen, the 4 inconspicuous, solitary, but angels sent from God and the Lamb, will be the first real sign of the beginning of the Day of the Lord (see also the 4 horsemen and Mat 10 chapters and the preaching of Christians). This can occur today, tomorrow, but also 200 years from now.
The plagues that affect Christians in the Lord's field will also affect other people. The sixth seal, says there will be a solar eclipse or an earthquake or every mountain and island will be moved. Some people, from kings to slaves, will want to "hide" with Christians. They will look for something solid "like a rock" because they realize that the end is indeed coming.
Revelation does not describe the "mechanism" of the "shaking". I think this is because the coming of Christ could occur in the 5th or 13th century or it will occur in the 22nd century. And that's why it's all about relationships. Not about whether the "eclipse" was caused by some ecological, financial or pandemic crisis and especially the failure/incompetence in dealing with it. It doesn't matter whether, and how far, this crisis was caused by man or merely misjudged and blamed on something or someone as the cause. To give an example: the Pharaoh, quite rationally and in terms of the political quest for power and the maintenance of power, identified the risks associated with the overpopulation of large numbers of migrants in his country. He was worried about power. That is why he started the repression. He feared that he would not shine like the sun on his subjects...
Now, in my opinion, it is a time when everyone has to walk alone, on a narrow footpath, in the rain, in the fog, in the dark, towards a goal that is somewhere in that direction. In the distance you can hear the highway, the railroad, and occasionally the voices of people, from the wide road below you...✌️😎
@BoogerMan: at no point in history nor in any point in the future will ALL governments pass power to a single entity. There is always at least 1 (but likely more) people in or in the ascension of power that this will never happen, yes, a group of governments may decide to give up their power (eg. EU) but someone will always recognize the power of being different (that was the Balkan countries or the Swiss)
In that passage Jesus is basically talking about people if you read it. In that specific piece, the word he used I believe is translated as "agitations". Now, at some point some translators started using "earthquakes"
It doesnt' really fit with the passage. It makes a lot more sense to think that he meant there would be agitations of people, or people being agitated. That would fit a lot better with the things he was describing.
