the watchtower is starting to crumble

by pepperheart 114 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  DesirousOfChange

  

  $4.19 at Target
  
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  jookbeard

  I had a chat today with two of them at their carts about the recent child abuse scandals , they were just clueless, absolutely brain dead, how do the R&F and their leaders think that the world out there takes anything they do seriously, they are a laughing stock, unless there is some radical changes in their leadership and doctrine they will just slip away into oblivion.
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  slimboyfat

  I think I've been pretty clear that anything resembling a WWCG type collapse would qualify as a collapse in my view. Including features such as a massive reduction of membership (say 50% in less than a decade, which is the sort of pace of WWCG decline), folding legal entities to protect assets, financial intervention/claims from outside stakeholders, disruption to organisational integrity, change of name, major splits, defections, renunciation of history, renunciation of core beliefs, and so on. I don't think they are far away from this.

  The most possitive spin you could put on their current situation is that the GB and management have sat down and had long hard think about strategy. They decided, in the words of the old saying: "in order for things to remain the same, everything must change". So they've implemented a plan to avoid financial and organisational ruin. Well maybe so.

  But I think the signals of panic are so high, the lack of coherent strategy so evident, and the accumulation of threats and dangers so great, that there is little way out for them at this point. They are facing some sort of existential crisis. Exactly what form it will take and what will emerge is not easy to say. But I think it will warrant the description "collapse" by any reasonable analysis.
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  _Morpheus

  Ok so a 50% reduction in membership over 10 years is your basic benchmark for a collapse. Fair enough. I would strongly argue against that being a disintegration, but a collapse is fair.

  That said, did you note that the benchmark in your own definition moved, in just a few hours, from two years to ten? I still disagree that it will happen in either time frame but it highlights my basic core flaw with these predictions, no matter who may be making them: its all very mutable given which way the wind seems to be blowing in the eyes of the predictor. In some posts its months (yes slim you said months ... well... months ago) some posts its years some posts its decades.

  Just admit it to yourself, if no else, slim... these predictions (earlier today 2 years now 10) arnt really based on what you percieve as facts. They are your hopes and dreams. Deep down you know the real truth about the truth... the org isnt going away in your or my lifetimes.
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  Crazyguy

  I think these guys are way to arrogant but todo anything but hold on till the very end. In 35-40 years over half of their membership of today will be dead. In that same amount of time another large percentage of their members will have left. It will be a religion of about 2 million maybe less, but they’ll make excuses for their small number. In the end they be just like any other very small Christian like sect.
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  Drearyweather

  An EX-JW predicting the end of Watchtower Corp is like a JW predicting the end of the world. Both's not going to happen..
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  slimboyfat

  I don't doubt I've said different ideas at different times. These are just my ideas and they are evolving as facts change. But I think it's easy to reconcile the idea that a WWCG style collapse could begin within a couple of years, yet take around 10 years to lose 50% of the membership as a result. That's the sort of scenario the WWCG experienced, and in fact is still playing out. I think they are far below 50% now.

  This is not wishful thinking. No my real dream scenario is that the JW leadership recognise imminent collapse, implement important reforms (shunning, blood, evolution, democracy, gender and sexual equality, education...) and instead emphasise heritage we can be proud of: nonviolence/opposition to war, the divine name, Bible teaching, scholarship, history, rationalism, freedom of thought, strong families and friendships; radically transform the JW community and make a basis for a better humanity.
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  stillin

  Collapse, sort of like what an elderly person might do in the kitchen. Oh, sure, they are still alive, they can get to the fridge and nibble things to keep going, but they have fallen and they can't get up.
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  slimboyfat

  I don't doubt I've said different ideas at different times. These are just my ideas and they are evolving as facts change. But I think it's easy to reconcile the idea that a WWCG collapse could begin within a couple of years, yet take around 10 years to lose 50% of the membership as a result. That's the sort of scenario the WWCG experienced in the 1990s, and in fact is still playing out. I think they are far below 50% now.

  This is not wishful thinking. No my real dream scenario is that the JW leadership recognise imminent collapse, implement important reforms (shunning, blood, evolution, democracy, gender and sexual equality, education...) and instead emphasise heritage we can be proud of: nonviolence/opposition to war, divine name, Bible teaching, schilarship, history, rationalism, freedom of thought, strong families and friendships. Radically transform the JW community and make a basis for a better humanity.
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  stillin

  Three cheers for SBF! These are the sort of things that one might expect from a true religion.