Need advice (page 6)

dubstepped

Those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still. You're wasting your time and fighting a losing battle. Few people are ever woken up by brute force. It isn't your fight to win or yours to control. In back, something called the "backfire effect" is more likely to happen and you'll only make them dig in deeper.

Drwho

How can I dispel what a Jw says about God uses the Watchtower ? Or that the fat governing body members are annoited ?

Drwho

Dubstepped

Im not wasting my time , I mean , something must ve made you leave ? The last thing I need is a mega negative input like that

dubstepped

Fluffing up your ego would do you no good. Telling you that you can change others would be lying to you. You need reality to move on with your life. I told you the truth. You may not like it, and it may sting, but most of us woke up because we were ready, not because someone woke us up. In fact, the backfire effect is a documented thing, as is something called a persecution complex. You don't think most of us we're challenged throughout the years? Of course we were, and it fed into our persecution complex. It made us dig in. What makes most people leave is the cumulative effect of personal awakenings, small bit by small bit, all seen by ourselves, smashed down with cognitive dissonance, until that magical day when it all comes bursting to the fore. You being argumentative will just drive them farther inward.

You are one person trying to tell her, or those elders, something different than she's heard from thousands of JWs over the years. Who do you think will win? The only change must come from within her. Nothing is 100%, but most of us had to do this ourselves. You're an outsider thinking you can beat a cult of 8,000,000 to gain 1, and you don't even know what you're arguing against and where these people will take your points. We as ex-JWs, well versed in all of this, cannot get our families out. It's up to her to save herself, not up to you to be the savior.

Saename

You want to dispel "what a [JW] says about God [using] the Watchtower"? Well, show her those two videos:

Stephen Lett says that the Watchtower has no problems with child sexual abuse and calls any allegations "apostate-driven lies and dishonesties":

Stephen Lett Says There Is No Problem with Child Sexual Abuse

Geoffrey Jackson, during the Australia Royal Commission, admits in court under oath that the Watchtower is, in fact, experiencing problems with child sexual abuse.

Geoffrey Jackson Admits There Is a Problem with Child Sexual Abuse

This should convince her (hopefully) that child sexual abuse allegations are not apostate lies, and that the Governing Body members lie to them when they say something different.

Note: If your girlfriend confronts you in regards to a question Geoffrey Jackson is asked in the second video, namely when he is asked, "And would you disagree then with anyone who said that the efforts to highlight and to deal with child sexual abuse in the Jehovah's Witness church is engaging in apostate lies?" Geoffrey Jackson does not say that child sexual abuse allegations are apostate lies. He is very ambiguous in his statement, that's for sure (and for a good reason—so that any JW watching this can say that child sexual abuse allegations are in fact apostate lies), but what he is denying is not child sexual abuse. He is denying other allegations that "apostates" make when they confront Jehovah's Witnesses regarding pedophilia. He, being a liar that he is (watch all the recordings from the Australia Royal Commission to see how he and the elders are attempting to dodge difficult questions and, in some cases, even lying about them), tries not to answer whether child sexual abuse allegations are apostate lies. (By the way, ambiguity is an actual logical fallacy; did you know?)

P.S. What did your girlfriend say exactly about apostates being like Adam and Eve? I have never heard that argument, and it doesn't really make sense to me... I mean, we are apostates, but we are apostates preaching the good news, are we not?

Saename

Note 2: I still have to say that I agree with dubstepped. I showed you those two videos above just for fun, if you wanted to make your goodbye with her feel like a knife stabbing her in the back. Sorry for the imagery, but that's how she'd view it, probably. I am actually surprised you're still trying to get her out. You started this thread around 20 days ago, and I just found it today because you updated it. Well, I gotta tell you, don't try anymore. Show her those two videos and say "Goodbye." That's it. I convinced myself that the organisation was lying. It wasn't somebody else. They showed me the information. But I convinced myself. You're not gonna convince her. Just tell her you are an apostate. An apostate preaching the good news. Show her the videos. And then say, "Goodbye." But regardless of what I said in my previous post, don't engage in any debates.

Worldling9

I just reread this post. Forgive me, I had forgotten that you've already given her a lot of information to think about. It sounds as though she's been unhappy in her family life (her home sounds more like a prison) and it's a respite and relief for her to spend time with you. She really likes you, but she's needing you to drink the Kool-Aid with her. It would be nice if you both could leave the Kool-Aid out of it and just agree to disagree...but is that even possible for her?

wl9

Drwho

Thanks for the videos , strange how you did a backtrack in your second post after reading dubstepeed post ? But its ok thanks anyway

funny thing is , Ive been barraging her with facts , and I really mean facts because I need to prove all that I tell her , and she that started 3 weeks ago , now I dont try to preach and I dont get stroppy and shout etc , im just calm and nice and after all this time she still comes back for more, so why doesn't she just run away fromme ? its would be easier , surely ? She says im confusing her and she will never leave her faith , then she once sad try again in a year ( thats when her kids will leave home ) I hurt her with my facts ( she says are lies ) and I even hold her bad motherly instincts against her as her 20y old daughter , jw of course , is suffering from depression and loneliness saying she would quite eays shun her poor daughter then take care of her if she left , its unreal cause she just comes back , even as I write this now she is whatsapping me, it weird : )

Drwho

Hi Wordling

Well I guess that is what I am to her yes, and sometimes we just do normal stuff without me bringing the bad stuff up She would never have me in her life as a non beliver

I am the big secret

nonjwspouse

Dr Who, if you stay with her, this back and forth, the constant trying to get her to "see" will pretty certainly never end. If you accept this future, that you will always be doing what you are dong now, and know you will experience deep frustration and pain with your girlfriend over and over. Then ok, you are an adult. Do what you want. But you just make sure you keep your head and heart in the reality of this. THIS is what your life will revolve around.

You are her big secret. Wrap your head around what happens when you are no longer a secret.

Also, who with any dignity and integrity, wants to be a "secret".?

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