The WT says that scientists may one day create living cells from non-living matter.
I will pick it up in a new thread. You have succeeded in trashing this one.
Origin of Life
by cofty 405 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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cofty
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Viviane
But if it is contradictory in this case you've yet to show where
I never said I would. Strawman again.
Seriously, for someone who keeps trying to use philosophy, you keep mis-using it, it's like you're just learned what a hammer is and keep using it to try to put in a lightbulb.
Any plain reading of the WT comments shows that Cofty has misunderstood what they teach
Except, of course, for all the direct quotes that show he doesn't, such as the one I provided. Why are you resorting to dishonesty?
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slimboyfat
I read both WT pages. Neither of them contradicts their own brochure which says scientists may one day succeed in creating living cells.
Can you quote where either page says scientists will never be able to create life from non-life? I can't find any such comment.
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Viviane
Ok, we've reach the point where SBF doesn't know what "only" means. I think we're done here.
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Mephis
I don't really see it either there. The 'spirit' is like electricity in the links Cofty gave. They have to clarify that on death the spirit doesn't really go back to God because it becomes a way of saying 'something is alive' - which seems flatly in contradiction to the bible verses they have to address. The article addresses 'only' God raising the dead, but not whether God's involved every time a baby is made. (Because if he is, oops on the angels, women and Flood thing!).
The question is whether man making life would be problematic. And I'm not sure it is. In JW theology, God isn't involved in the production of spirit on a day-to-day basis. It's passed on, but he's the only originator. It's whether or not the means of transmission is an issue should scientists one day create life. I suspect that it won't be a huge problem for them to explain away, as the article SBF linked hints at.
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cofty
It's whether or not the means of transmission is an issue should scientists one day create life.
In JW world, if science produces life from rocks the cell would have spirit. Where would that have come from?
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Mephis
In JW world, if science produces life from rocks the cell would have spirit. Where would that have come from?
From the scientists who were created by God. Just as angels could have babies before the Flood by making physical bodies for themselves.
You're looking for a way to pin this down when it's gibberish to start with Cofty. There isn't a huge shift required for them to explain it away. 'Spirit' is just another way of saying 'alive'.
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cofty
'Spirit' is just another way of saying 'alive'.
“Spirit” thus refers to an invisible force (the spark of life) that animates all living creatures.... Similarly, the spirit is the force that brings our body to life. Also, like electricity, the spirit has no feeling and cannot think. It is an impersonal force.
“The dust [of his body] returns to the earth, just as it was, and the spirit returns to the true God who gave it.” Eccl.12:7
the life-force returns to where it came from—God
With you is the source of life; By your light we can see light. Ps.36:9
“the body without spirit [pneuʹma] is dead.” - Jas.2:26
So if science made all the complex parts of a cell as the brochure suggests it would be lifeless without pneuma (the spark of life) from god.
The brochure is typical WT double-speak. Nowhere does it say science might succeed in making a LIVING cell.
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Mephis
This does not mean that the life-force [spirit] actually travels to heaven. Rather, it means that for someone who dies, any hope of future life rests with Jehovah God. His life is in God’s hands, so to speak. Only by God’s power can the spirit, or life-force, be given back so that a person may live again.
They've transformed the idea (and the words) into a metaphor. It's their way round the whole 'soul' problem. And it leaves lots of wriggle room on the question you pose too. God doesn't literally get the spirit back. He doesn't literally have to give it to make something alive. Or they'd have to explain where God fits in with the baby making process etc etc.
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cofty
He doesn't literally have to give it to make something alive.
The quotes I gave you above say otherwise.