Probability of Earth and life being how it is (page 5)

TonusOH

Sea Breeze: Can't disagree with that. But so what?

This is why I don't see the minimal facts approach as a useful argument for the legitimacy of the Bible.

ballistic: if I'm projecting the universe "out there", how could I tell that is the case, or even likely?

That sounds a bit like the free will question. Am I really free to make decisions, or are there so many other factors at play that I am just a puppet acting out a role I cannot possibly influence? If I am basically a running program, how could I know? And if I was to discover that I am, would I be able to break the programming, or would my reaction simply be more of the same? Is my reality everyone else's reality, or only mine? Am I a brain in a vat? And so on.

peacefulpete

How do you know you are not just believeing something as far fetched as 1975, then living in denial of the facts like your dad did? Is it possible that you are more like your dad than you care to admit?

First, my father was a good man. He was a very intelligent man. I wish in many ways to be more like him. His choice to accept a compromise was his to make. The choice not to is mine to make.

SBF...The point of God is that he doesn’t have a location in space or time and is self-caused.

You are again obfuscating the point. The argument being made was cause and effect proves a god. That is just rhetoric if your god and the dimension he exists in are exceptions. If you imagine god is 'outside time and space', you have not answered what is outside time and space. If there is an outside, it too must be explained. Another dimension? where did that dimension come from? If something exists, it exists somewhere. A god, or anything, that is said to exist nowhere is nothing but a grammatical placeholder.

Science too has placeholders, our knowledge of the infinitely small is limited and likely always will be. I simply pointed out the emptiness of these arguments for a god being made.

Duran

Jesus claimed to be God

No, he claimed to be 'God's son'. Show me one Scripture where he claims to be 'God' as clearly as he claims he is 'God's son'.

[36 do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?]

Can you think of any historical examples of where hundreds of people fabricated a lie at the same time that was guaranteed to cause their loved ones to reject and shun them? Then, these same people were willing to die for something they KNEW was a lie?

Do you believe it is true or a fabricated lie that an angel of God appeared to Muhammad and gave him the info to write the Quran?

Will Muslims die for what they believe and kill others for what they believe?

Will Muslims reject and shun their family for not believing?

Sea Breeze

@TonusOH

This is why I don't see the minimal facts approach as a useful argument for the legitimacy of the Bible.

Why would you routinely make present life choices based on probability; yet make choices about your eternal welfare based on another standard?

@peacefulpete

my father was a good man

Regarding the 1975 false prophecy you said on another post:

I recall my father the PO at the time telling others that they had read too much into it.

Good men don't victim shame. Your father (and many, many others) chose to ignore 100% proof of something false yet to still characterize it as the "truth".

My question to you is: Do you think it is possible that you might have inherited a similar illogical approach to life?

Touchofgrey

https://www.gcrr.org/post/minimalfactsapologetics

facts presented are not his, but representative of between 75 to 95 % of all scholars (including atheists, Jewish, and otherwise) who publish in the area of 1 st century Christianity.

Sea breeze please read the link gary habermas did not get his paper properly peer reviewed.

These minimal facts argument has been debunked many times, yet you keep reverting to them rather than doing some independent research into the subject, by experts with PhDs and their peer reviewed articles.

Touchofgrey

The earth was not created or designed for life, it came about from a solar nebula around 4.5 billion years ago, massive cloud of dust and gas colliding together eventually forming the earth over billions of years and many impact events helped with the formation of the earth eg water, look at the surface of the moon for evidence of that.

Even after that there have been 5 massive extinctions events in earth's history, so not designed for life, and even earthquakes volcanic eruptions etc provide evidence that the earth was not designed for life.

So no evidence of a master designer, as humans we are very fortunate to have progressed to where we are now.

MeanMrMustard

Guys we've been over this : there is no spoon.

peacefulpete

ballistic...The computer simulation pseudoscience is messing with your head. We exist on a macroscale where quantum effects have no meaningful relevance. Our minds are biochemical machines. Your mind is not a quantum supercomputer or an astral projector. The little yellow dog next to me and the chipmunks in my yard are also biochemical machines. The chipmunk perceives the world and reacts to it, his mind is not creating it, projecting it. The imagination can get lost in 'what ifs' and impossible thought experiments. The question is what evidence suggests such an incredible hypothesis is true. The answer is none. It is a provocative imaginative idea akin to the idea of gnomes moving things when we aren't watching or Steven King's Langoliers.

ballistic

The chipmunk perceives the world and reacts to it

How does the chipmonk know that what is coming in through his senses, and presumably creating a model of the outside world for him to observe, is really coming in from the outside and not just made up in his head?

peacefulpete

Good men don't victim shame. Your father (and many, many others) chose to ignore 100% proof of something false yet to still characterize it as the "truth".
My question to you is: Do you think it is possible that you might have inherited a similar illogical approach to life?

My Father, like most people, likely assumed others thought/felt they way he did. He probably was somewhat surprised/disappointed others took it all so seriously. His choice was 'logical' just like yours seems to be to you. Up till now you have been inoffensive, don't change that by attacking the character of others you didn't know.

Probability of Earth and life being how it is

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