Not only the ORG who perverts Scriptures! (page 2)

FragrantAddendum

all the religious corporations are corrupted and run by posers

that's why they're getting shut down

catholic/mormon/jw/etc

bunch of fakers with pharisaical doctrines

their ways are not the right ways

Beth Sarim

They're getting shut down and $$$ drying up.

Constant pandering for donations and properties being sold off.

Balaamsass2

All religion is a snare and a racket. :)

BoogerMan

@ ThomasMore - Your comment about the WTBTS/JW's perverted teaching about the "one mediator" is very well known here and not up for debate.

The O.P. highlights the Roman Catholic Church's false teaching, opposition & denial of what Jesus forcefully & openly stated about himself:

1) That he was the way, the mediator or intercessor for humans - no one else! (no saints or Mary)

2) That humans could not approach God Almighty except through his name. (no saints or Mary)

3) Only his name was to be used John 14:14, 26; 15:16; 16:23, 26. (no saints or Mary)

When anyone uses their denomination's dogmas, biases, and traditions to argue against what Scriptures say, leave them to it.

Most of us have experienced that with JW PIMI's.

The Protestants abolished the veneration of the Virgin Mary and the saints. This may be the most incomprehensible aspect of all Protestantism. Who does not love and honor their mother? A bad person. Jesus tenderly cared for his mother, even while hanging on the cross. If Christ loved her so much, then his mother must have been superior to all other people, and thus we are also obliged to honor her. Protestantism does not honor the Virgin Mary. They say she is just like any other person, therefore not deserving of greater reverence.

We not only do not understand this, but we have a completely different view. The Virgin Mary is the mother of God, as Scripture says: full of grace, that is, endowed with spiritual beauty. A virgin, pure, white from all sin, immaculate even from original sin, the sin of Adam and Eve. She is goodness, piety, gentleness, the noblest human being, whom every Catholic, especially those in Marian congregations, honors as their mother, a model to follow, and a heavenly patron. We gladly believe that the Virgin Mary lives close to God in heaven, prays for us, and intercedes for us with God.

In their zeal for destruction, Protestantism also dethroned the Virgin Mary, and to further compound their mistake, they throw the slander at us that we worship the Virgin Mary. If we asked where they saw this written in any Catholic book, they would not be able to answer. Yet, they repeat it every day. We say: it is a sad religion that cannot exist without slander.

By the way The title "Mother of God" (Theotokos) for Mary was also used by Origen (+254), and its legitimacy was declared by the Council of Ephesus in its canons. This is also expressed in the prayer called Sub tuum praesidium, preserved in the Rylands Papyrus found in Egypt, which originated before AD 250: "We fly to thy protection, O Holy Mother of God..." So the faith and practice of the pre-Constantinian Christians was the same as that of the Roman Catholic Church.

Many Fathers of the early Christian Church used the title Theotokos for Mary since at least the third century AD. Origen (d. 254) is often cited as the earliest author to use Theotokos for Mary (Socrates, Ecclesiastical History 7.32, citing Origen's Commentary on Romans). Dionysius of Alexandria used Theotokos around 250, in an epistle to Paul of Samosata. Athanasius of Alexandria in 330, Gregory the Theologian in 370, John Chrysostom in 400, and Augustine all used Theotokos. Theodoret wrote in 436 that calling the Virgin Mary Theotokos is an apostolic tradition.

The veneration of saints is like the veneration of distinguished people. If we honor the greats of our nation, why should we not honor the great heroes of faith, who sacrificed their lives, work, and even blood for Christ? These are the great examples we follow, whose words inspire us, and through whom we strive to be better, more moral, purer, and more God-fearing.

Here, Luther followed a strange principle, one we saw with the communists, who did not respect talent, virtue, or excellence, but degraded everyone to the level of the proletariat. Luther's followers accuse us of idolatry again. Poor souls!

We use two meanings for intercession. One meaning refers only to Jesus Christ. In the full sense of the word, He is the only mediator between God and man. His divine-human nature is the link between man and the incomprehensible divine Being. His crucifixion brought redemption to man, and this will be effective and sufficient for salvation as long as the world exists.

However, we use another, everyday meaning of intercession: providing help through mere prayer, asking on behalf of others, interceding before God or man. It is certain that we can and should pray for each other, so we cannot deny this type of intercession. Therefore, we should not make a conceptual issue out of it and deny the possibility of human intercession on the basis that only Jesus is the mediator. Here, it is clear that two completely different qualities of intercession are at play. Jesus' intercession is absolute, while that of the saints, including the Virgin Mary, is conditional. Jesus' intercession is infinitely powerful, while that of the saints is always finite and always realized through the work of Jesus. Playing these two meanings of the word against each other can easily lead to absurdity.

According to the Catholic Church, the veneration of saints is essentially the veneration of God, and this is its essence. We do not primarily honor and love the saints because they were virtuous and exceptional people—though they deserve respect for that as well—but mainly because they loved and served God with extraordinary devotion. This allows us to approach God with greater confidence in their company. In the saints, we Catholics ultimately honor and love God as well.

A typical Protestant objection is, "I don't need saints to approach God." It is true, you can approach God alone. In fact, even if you seek the intercession of the saints, the main thing is still that you yourself wholeheartedly prostrate before God. However, you should not object if someone prefers to approach the king after having already asked the king’s mother and close servants to speak a good word on their behalf.

Protestants also say that "God knows what I want to ask Him, so it is unnecessary for the saints to tell Him first what I want." But one does not seek the help of heavenly patrons to "tell" God what He already knows, but so that they also pray for me. This increases my hope that God will be more inclined to hear my prayer, considering their supplication.

So, is there favoritism in heaven too? If by favoritism we mean support based on nepotism or camaraderie, then of course, this cannot be the case with God. But if we take the word 'favoritism' in its original sense ("protegere" = to protect), then yes, we are right to seek the protection of God's friends.

Intercessory prayer to the saints would only contradict monotheism if the believer praying to them turned to them in opposition to God, as rivals to God, or as beings independent of and equal to God. This would mean believing that what is received from them is given by their own power, independently of God, rather than because they are the dearest of God's creations, and what they ask from God is granted more readily than what we alone request.

The fact that Protestants directly approach God, while Catholics often do so through the saints, only proves that Protestants are much more arrogant and much less aware of their sins than Catholics. It also demonstrates that Catholics have a stronger belief in eternal life than Protestants.

Catholics truly believe that the Virgin Mary, the mother of Jesus, the apostles, and other pious early Christians, despite having died, are still alive today, that they still love us, strive to help us, and naturally have the means to do so. Protestants believe none of this. At least they act as if they don't believe it. According to them, the Virgin Mary no longer exists, there are no apostles, and St. John the Baptist and St. Paul are no longer alive. They do not say this openly (although some of their theologians do), but their actions imply it.

Who has ever seen a glorified soul that, having been glorified, becomes lesser than before? How is it possible that we, who are still struggling here on earth, full of weaknesses and even sins, can understand the requests of our fellow human beings and, if we are kind-hearted, help them, but those who are already glorified, and even we ourselves when we are glorified, will no longer understand the requests of our fellows or be able to help them? Considering prayer to the saints useless is not the same as not believing in eternal life and eternal reward?

We can assume that even in the modern age, especially in the Western world, even the most humble village grandmother knows that saints are prayed to not as independent gods but as God's servants, whose strength comes not from themselves but from their good relationship with God. Therefore, it is deeply insulting to us and an intolerable arrogance and unprecedented breach of Christian love from our Protestant counterparts to assume we lack such understanding. Even if a Dante or an Ampère did what they consider idolatry.

It does not offend God's majesty, greatness, or sole lordship if we worship and ask Him not only directly but also through the intercession of His beloved creations who have already reached His holy presence. Naturally, it would not offend if all our prayers reached Him through these intermediaries. This only proves that we believe in eternal life and that we believe our fellow humans who have already reached the sight of God are just as alive now as when we saw them with our physical eyes and communicated our thoughts or desires to them through the vibration of air molecules.

How could it be offensive to God's uniqueness if I ask through His beloved creations when all the honor, authority, and power of the Virgin Mary and all other saints derive solely from the fact that they served God well and are therefore dear to Him in my eyes?

If we extend our reverence not only to God but also to those who are dear to Him, it is certainly not a sign of diminished worship towards God, but quite the opposite, a sign of greater devotion. One who prays only to God shows reverence, but with pride; one who also prays to the saints shows such great reverence that even their pride and self-consciousness dissolve in it. There, we worship God and also ourselves; here, we annihilate ourselves, and only God remains.

In Catholic liturgy, the difference between God and the saints, i.e., the creatures, is so sharply emphasized that everyone must notice it. In the litany, we say, "Heavenly Father, have mercy on us!" and then, "Holy Virgin Mary, pray for us!" Thus, we ask for God's mercy, but only for the intercession of the Virgin Mary. She helps us only by praying. Who has ever seen a God, or even a "substitute God," who proclaims that there is only one God, before whom even the Queen of Heaven can only pray? Another frequently occurring prayer in Catholic worship is: "Pray for us (formerly: Pray to God for us), Holy Mother of God!" This also reminds us of the Blessed Virgin's servant status alongside God. Before God, humans can only be servants, which is natural. But we see that in the great Marian devotion of the Catholic Church, this truth is not only not obscured but is highlighted and—what's more—is considered natural.

The Virgin Mary herself called herself the "handmaid of the Lord." The Church frequently reminds us of this, as we recite it every morning, noon, and evening in the Angelus.

Before the Blessed Sacrament (which is truly the body of Christ), we kneel, but before images or statues of saints or the Virgin Mary, we do not even bend our knees; we merely bow, even inside the church, and most of the time, we don't even look at them. Because God is present in the Blessed Sacrament in all our churches, this draws our attention away from them. When the Lord Himself is present, we do not concern ourselves with His servant, even if that servant holds the rank of a prime minister.

It's true, we do kneel before an image of Mary, but only if we are going there to pray. Kneeling, therefore, is not for the image or the crucifix but for the prayer. We kneel when we pray, whether or not we do it in front of a crucifix or an image of Mary. It would be strange if we did not kneel just because we were praying before an image of Mary. The prayer is always directed to God, even if it is done through the intercession of the Virgin Mary or the saints.

The Protestant is only scandalized by the sight of a Catholic praying kneeling before an image of Mary or a crucifix because the truth is, he does not even kneel before God. For him, the greatest reverence before God is to stand. He gives everything to God but still retains his human dignity even before God. This, however, is not dignity but pride. There is only one being, God. Those who exist outside of Him do so by His grace. There is no being independent of God, and therefore there can be no self-esteem before God, only intolerable and at the same time ridiculous pride.

This cannot be excused even if someone convinces themselves that this is only to maintain the purity of monotheism and hatred against idolatry and foreign gods. Standing instead of bowing to the ground during prayer clearly reveals that there is enough defiance among Protestants, even against the one true God.

If a Protestant sees a Catholic praying kneeling before a crucifix or an image of Mary, he should not be scandalized that this person worships people or even, heaven forbid, wood, marble, or plaster, but rather be ashamed that even the One God does not receive as much from him as the symbol of redemption or the saints do from a Catholic.

What a sign of malice, arrogance, and hatred (perhaps unconsciously) it is that when a Protestant sees a Catholic kneeling before a crucifix or statue of Mary, he thinks that the person is worshiping the marble or wood from which the crucifix or statue was carved. Yet, when he salutes the national flag (in the Protestant United States, this salute is regular and even prescribed in schools), it never occurs to him that he is saluting the cotton, jute, or canvas from which the flag is made, but rather that he is expressing feelings and respect for his homeland.

When saluting the national flag, he does not think of it as merely fabric. At such times, he sees only his homeland. But before a crucifix or statue of a saint, it does not occur to him that it is not wood or marble, but a symbol or reminder of the Mother and heroes of God.

This is how blind, biased, and one-sided a person can be when led by passions and accustomed to hatred. Yet, the same person otherwise cannot talk about anything else but not hating, not differentiating between people based on religion, since we are all children of the same nation, and ultimately worship one God.

I do not understand why someone cannot comprehend that when we pray, it is wise to kneel rather than sprawl in an armchair, and to fix our gaze on the crucifix or the image of the Mother of God rather than on a tobacco pouch, thermometer, or even a picture of the founding fathers of our nation hanging on the wall. We kneel before a religious image or statue because it helps us more easily enter the mindset necessary for prayer, and during prayer, we are less likely to let our minds wander than otherwise.

I can assure every Protestant that it never occurred to the Catholics praying in this way that they were actually kneeling before a piece of wood or limestone, let alone worshiping it, until they learned this from their well-meaning Protestant brethren. They should not be surprised, as surely it never occurred to them when seeing the national flag that the fluttering object they eagerly follow is just a piece of cloth, nothing more, and that showing respect to pictures of the heroes of our nation contradicts human dignity and common sense.

However, the main reason Protestants have only their God and no Mary or saints, and especially why they do not pray to Mary or the saints, lies deeper than this. The true reason, as I mentioned earlier, is that they do not seriously believe in eternal life. They do not believe even if they think they do. If they seriously believed, they would also venerate the saints and pray to them.

Protestants do not pray to the saints primarily because they think they are Christians, but if we scrutinize the matter closely, it turns out that they are not truly Christians. They do not seriously believe in eternal life, which is the foundation not only of Christianity but of all religious faiths. Their inability to bring themselves to invoke the saints is actually proof that they do not seriously and truly believe in life after death. However, to avoid openly admitting this, they claim that it is not this but rather the concern for the purity of monotheism that prevents them from praying to the saints and giving them religious reverence.

If there is life after death, and in this life after death, there is salvation, that is, heaven; if it is certain that those who have died are still alive today, then at least those who have received the reward of eternal happiness in the afterlife not only live but can also do good, help those they love, and pray for them. In this case, belief in the saints and praying to them is self-evident. Anyone who thinks that praying to the saints is unnecessary because they cannot help us is essentially claiming that those who are already saved and have received their final reward from God have become inferior beings compared to when they were still alive on earth. At that time, they could pray for others and help those they loved.

For example, a mother can pray for her children while living on earth, and she does so if she is a good mother. But is it possible that if she dies and is saved, having reached the sight of God and glorified, she can no longer do the same?

If that were the case, then salvation would be a punishment, as it would make us more helpless than we were before. If the dead live, they can love and do love in the afterlife, and if they are saved, their word carries even more weight before God, so their love is more effective than it was in their earthly life when they were still struggling for eternal salvation.

It is clear that the saved can be asked to help us, and even clearer that it is the most basic requirement that they hear, understand, and acknowledge our requests.

Salvation means someone has become a saint (because not only those who are canonized are saints). It would be a punishment for a mother if, in this state, she could love her child left on earth even less and could help even less than she could during her earthly life. What kind of salvation, what kind of happiness would it be if even the exercise of love, the most sacred human activity, was paralyzed and condemned to inactivity?

Therefore, it is clear that the saints, and generally all the saved, hear our requests even better than they did in their earthly lives (if this were not the case, glorification would not be a perfection but a diminution), have even greater goodwill to fulfill our requests than they did when they were still on earth (because saints are certainly better than we are), and have even greater power to fulfill our requests than they did when they were still earthly beings.

Therefore, it is undeniable that it is possible and worthwhile to pray to the saints, and even more undeniable that this is worship, not something displeasing to God. To say, for example, that praying to the Virgin Mary is meaningless can only be said by someone who believes that the Virgin Mary ceased to exist at her death and therefore does not live today. If she lives, she certainly does not live in damnation. And whoever is in heaven is certainly wiser, better, and more powerful than they were in their earthly life. Who has ever seen a saint who, though alive and glorified, is condemned to inactivity, knows nothing about what is happening with their loved ones on earth, and is even less able to help them? Such a "salvation" is inconceivable, as it would be more of a punishment than a reward.

Many Protestant theologians have realized the illogicality of this view, and not only Adventists teach this, but I have also encountered this assertion in Baptist and even Lutheran publications that with death, not only the body dies but the soul also ceases to exist and that God will resurrect both body and soul only at the end of the world.

Therefore, they argue that there is no need to pray to the Virgin Mary or the saints because they currently do not exist. They too will only come back to life, be resurrected at the end of the world, along with us. These Protestant theologians openly admit that they do not believe in eternal life now, postponing its beginning to the end of the world. According to them, there is currently no eternal life (thus no hell either), but it will only come after the end of the world.

This view is logical to the extent that it explains why Protestants do not pray to the saints, why they generally do not believe in saints, and why they think praying for the dead is unnecessary. (Interestingly, in this last point, all Protestant denominations unanimously agree, even though it is rare for them to agree on anything. We can see that when disbelief rather than faith is required, they easily agree.)

This explanation is also logical in that it accounts for the fact that the concept of eternal happiness is incompatible with the idea of saints or the saved living and being happy but unable to communicate with us, unaware of what is happening with us on earth, and that it is useless for us to turn to them because even if they understood our requests, they could not help us. They argue that if the saints helped us, it would offend God's exclusive majesty. These wise theologians do not consider that in eliminating these illogicalities, they fall into another, much greater illogicality than the ones they mentioned.

The main argument of Protestantism against the intercession of saints and consequently against praying to them is that, according to the Bible, we have only one mediator with the Father, and that is His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ. Clearly, this is true; thus, no one else can be our mediator in the same sense as Jesus. However, it is equally clear that this truth does not make it impossible or incorrect to have other, lower-ranked intercessors alongside Him.

If this were not the case, then we could also reprimand a mother praying for her child or a bride praying for her groom, telling them to stop because, don't you know, we humans have only one mediator, Christ? On what grounds do you think you can push yourself into that role as well? Yet, we know that the poor mother and the poor bride are far from such presumptuous blasphemy and have no other fault than that they love deeply. So too, the saints are our intercessors only because of their deep love.

Naturally, these human intercessors, whether still living on earth or already glorified, belong to an entirely different order from the intercession of our Lord Christ, and they cannot even be compared to it. Our Lord Christ is the source of our entire salvation; His crucifixion is the foundation and the only indispensable condition for the salvation of all people. But it is also undeniable that if a good mother constantly implores heaven for the conversion of her wayward son, she too is an intercessor with God for her son, even if she is not otherwise a saint and is full of her own flaws. It is also unquestionable that only a deranged mind could interpret her prayers as being offensive to our Lord Christ, the sole mediator.

Not only sinful earthly humans but also the glorified saints stand as far from Jesus Christ as any creature stands from the infinite God. But from this truth, it does not follow that only Jesus can propitiate God, only He can pray, only He can love, and we cannot. On the contrary, it follows that we too must do what He did and does, which means we must pray and intercede for others.

Even less does it follow that it is forbidden for us to turn to Jesus, our supreme and sole mediator with God, through the intercession of other more deserving people. Quite the opposite. This is pleasing to God because it is a sign of humility and awareness of sin if we prefer to approach Him not directly but through His mother or other glorified people far more worthy than we are.

Both the praying earthly mother and the glorified saints in heaven praying for us, as well as the Blessed Virgin, draw upon the infinite value of Christ's redemption and His mediating role when they intercede for someone or pray on behalf of someone. This does not happen by ignoring or belittling Jesus' mediating role, but precisely to secure His redemption for ourselves and obtain this supreme intercession for ourselves. We too believe there is only one mediator because there is only one redeemer, Jesus. There could be no intercessors or saints without Jesus and His redemption. The Virgin Mary, the mother of God, could especially not exist without Jesus. Everything happens through Jesus' intercession and for His intercession, whether directly or indirectly.

We also do not see from the Bible that God views human intercessors, aside from Jesus, unfavorably. Quite the opposite. Abraham interceded for the people of Sodom, where his relative Lot lived, and his intercession was successful. (Genesis 18:17-33) Initially, God intended to destroy the city outright, but due to Abraham's intercession, He was willing to spare it if righteous people could be found there, and Abraham's further pleading reduced the number of righteous needed.

In the Book of Kings (2 Kings 19:34, 20:6), the Lord says: "I will defend this city and save it, for my sake and for the sake of my servant David!" He frequently emphasizes that He acts favorably towards David's descendants because of David's merits. In Daniel 3:35, we find: "Do not withdraw your mercy from us, for the sake of Abraham, your beloved, Isaac, your servant, and Israel, your holy one." At this point, neither Abraham, Isaac, nor Jacob (Israel) were alive. So we see that asking God because of His saints, for their merits, and through their intercession is not only not contrary to God's will or Scripture but is recommended by Scripture, emphasizing that it is for their sake that God forgives us.

We can even find evidence in Scripture for the veneration of saints' relics, which Protestants so harshly condemn and despise. In Acts 19:11-12, we read: "God did extraordinary miracles through Paul, so that even handkerchiefs and aprons that had touched him were taken to the sick, and their illnesses were cured, and the evil spirits left them."

We see how Catholic the Scriptures are and how the apostles' direct disciples were very much like today's Catholics. The "superstition" of relic "worship" was already present among them, just as it is among contemporary Catholics, and the Scriptures not only do not condemn this but consider it appropriate and natural, with God affirming and rewarding this supposedly intolerable behavior and darkest superstition with miracles.

It cannot be denied that even the very first "Christians" were Catholics and that the Scriptures are too. Regarding the veneration of saints, the apostles thought and acted exactly like Catholics of the Middle Ages or our present day.

According to the accusations of Protestants, Catholics "worship" Mary alongside God. Although many Protestant theological textbooks stubbornly repeat this, it is nothing more than a complete and perfect misunderstanding. Catholics also worship and honor only the one true God as God. There is a clear difference between simple religious respect and worship. This conceptual difference exists in every language (adorare - venerari, anbeten - verehren, adorer - vénérer). The fact that in certain places for four hundred years they have refused to acknowledge this obvious distinction has its psychological reasons. We cannot be blamed for that.

Protestants say, "but yes, Catholics kneel before the image of the Virgin Mary and pray to her." Neither kneeling nor praying, in themselves, constitute worship. Worship means recognizing and honoring as God. When we Catholics kneel before an image of Mary, we do so because we honor the Virgin Mary with deep respect, and kneeling is a worthy and permitted expression of this respect. If Protestants say that only what is in the Scriptures is true, then let them show where the Scriptures forbid the expression of non-worshipful respect by kneeling? Praying to the Virgin Mary is simply supplication and invocation. Where in the Scriptures is it stated that it is forbidden to seek the help of the Mother of God and to pray to her? Moreover, the Hail Mary is partly a repetition of the greeting that God Himself had delivered to the Virgin Mary through the angel and that Elizabeth addressed to the Holy Virgin. If it were a sin to address the Virgin Mary with "Hail, full of grace," then God Himself would have committed this sin first! The first part of the Hail Mary is explicitly in the Scriptures.

Accusation: "According to the Scriptures, 'honor and glory belong to God alone'; yet Catholics share this glory with the saints." In the absolute sense in which glory belongs to God, we Catholics do not glorify anyone other than the one true God. We revere only Him in this way, acknowledging Him alone as the supreme Lord of the universe. But should we understand the above Scriptural phrase to mean that we should not give any honor or respect to anyone other than God? Does not God Himself command the opposite? Does He not, for example, require in the 4th commandment that we honor our parents? If we can honor great people, kings, governors, scholars, poets, and patriots, do the saints, especially Christ’s Virgin Mother, not deserve special religious respect because they are God’s friends, His most faithful servants, and the distinguished recipients of His grace? Especially the Holy Virgin, whom Jesus Himself bestowed the greatest glory and honor by choosing her as His mother?

According to the Protestant objection, "God strictly forbids the making of graven images; the Catholic Church, like the Greek Church, carves crucifixes and holy statues and fills its churches with images."

God’s law does not say not to make graven images, but rather not to make graven images for the purpose of worshiping them. This is a typical example of the arbitrary and truncated interpretation of Scripture, a constant phenomenon in anti-Catholic debates. They pluck a Scripture quotation out of context, ignore the necessary circumstances for proper interpretation, or overlook other clearer Scriptural passages that contradict their thesis—thus forming their argument. In this way, one can "prove" anything from Scripture.

The difference between idolatry and Christian veneration of images lies in the fact that an idolater worships the statue or fetish as a god, attributing divine powers to it; while a Christian Catholic does not worship the holy images, statues, or crucifix but regards them as reminders of God and His saints, holding them in esteem. When we kneel before a crucifix, it is not the wood or stone we respect, but the one whom the crucifix represents: Jesus Christ. Every Catholic child knows this, and Protestants know it too, but their zealous individuals persistently propagate this malicious tale.

Moreover, we find crosses, statues, and holy images in Lutheran churches as well: why, then, do Calvinists never thunder against these but are only scandalized by them in Catholic churches? This is a clear sign that it is not common sense or religious fervor speaking here, but passion and hatred.

Is it idolatry if someone hangs a picture of their deceased mother in their room or the president's portrait in their office as a sign of respect?

ThomasMore

Boogerman - sorry for deviating off topic. I was foaming at the mouth after reading 1 Tim and could not resist.

Are you saying that I should throw away my Mother Mary Lucky Astrology Mood Ring that I wear at Druid ceremonies?

BoogerMan

@ Thomas More - Nah, just send it to aqwsed12345

It'll take his mind off the New Advent web site!

Have a good weekend. 😃

KalebOutWest

Jews also believe in the intercession of saints. It did not originate with Roman Catholicism.

I think Watchtower religion still affects the minds of many who leave and some never progress past Fundamentalism or literal reading of the Bible as if it came first, then Judaism and then the New Testament and Christians followed. These concepts of Restorationists aren't historical or even logical. The religions came first, then members from within wrote the texts. Centuries later authorities of the religions canonized texts they preferred to stop heretics, like the Marcionists.

The idea that fellow believers pray for us even after we die goes back to Jewish days that influenced the first Christians. Upon burying martyrs they continued to ask these fellow saints for their intercession to never stop now that they were in heaven with God. There were no letters of Paul or written Gospels circulating when this practice started. It is far more ancient, as the writings of the Apostolic Fathers prove and the catacombs.

The New Testament is a later work and Paul's epistles apply to counter the claims of Marcion of Sinope, not Christians who asked for the intercession of saints.

LostintheFog1999

aqwsed12345,

Yawn.

I think you need to head over to the Roman Catholic Church Discussion forum because most pomo jws here have no time for organised religion like the RCC, or for people that just copy and paste lengthy articles from unknown sources that are so long that nobody bothers reading them to the end.

FragrantAddendum

speaking of perverts...

why do so many wt speakers stick out their tongues like snakes when they speak?

has anyone else noticed how gary breaux and mark noumair do that all the time?

sssssuper sssssnakey

https://youtu.be/CN36stRsz1o

Not only the ORG who perverts Scriptures!

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