Freddy Franz, One of the smartest men of his day????

by DwainBowman 70 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Fisherman

  I guess he forgot about his old lies from the past

  Fink, the 6000 year teaching is very logical. It makes sense. (Problem is that it did not realize lol) The teaching is not outlandish vision of FF. Jews for example have the same teaching to mark the Messianic era but use different reference dates.

  This guy was a crook and con man portraying himself to be a academically trained bible scholar but was just a idealistic amateur who took on the position of one of the leading writers for the WTS.

  I disagree. My whole perspective understanding of the Bible would not have been so enriched if not for the WT writers such as FF. And that is why I have no problem understanding Rashi in Jewish terms and Christendoms teachings thinking in their terms and that is why I also have the mental grasp that I have of the Bible in perspective not just a one side view. Now about what he is being accused of relating to academic claims, I do not know and in all justice first his academic claims (whatever people say they are ) must be establsihed and then invalidated. I have not seen that, only accustaion and inconcluive evidence. And this site is not the proper impartial arbitrator or Forum adjudicate that he amde any false claims about hi academic credentials.

  He was also mainly responsible of creating the no blood doctrine which has killed thousands and still kills people to day ,

  I don't know about that. But until recently when they had more effective screening methods for blood a lot of people got infected from bad blood. IT is also true that a lot of people were cured with the use of BT. I know of examples for both cases and it is also fair to say that lives were saved that would otherwise have been lost had they accepted blood. Whatever the case, it is not so outlandish not to be so blood happy,;just look at how popular bloodless medicine has become. I do not see however how medical risks would bring any comfort to someone who lost a loved one as result of not accepting blood. I could understand their outrage But that is a Marvin Shilmer topic. But you have have not shown that FF is responsible for the deaths of thousands as you assert by saying that he is mainly responsible.

  FF was remarkable and brilliant in his ambit of understanding of the Bible, his memory, his intelligence and in his success in expanding JW worlwide to millions, financial grwoth of the org, triumphant legal victories, etc. That aint easy.
  
• 

  steve2

  just look at how popular bloodless medicine has become. I do not see however how medical risks would bring any comfort to someone who lost a loved one as result of not accepting blood.

  Have you ever been employed in an Emergency Department? Do you know how quickly people die when they suffer traumatic blood loss as in vehicle accidents and injuries at work or home? Do you realize how much greater regular loss of life would be in Emergecny Departments without blood.

  Clearly, you are still hooked into the JW crowing about the dangers of blood and have absolutely zero awareness of how there are no alternatives to massive blood loss?

  You will notice that JW literature almost always talks about planned surgery and alternatives to blood and seldom if ever addreesses the vexed issue of traumatic blood loss. Funny that.

  Fact is, their policy is hugely contradictory. You are allowed all sorts of blood fractions donated by others but you are not allowed to donate blood yourself for such fractions. And their ban on autologous transfusions is a death sentence.

  There is a world of difference between sensibly choosing whether or not to have blood for planned procedures and in specified procedures, there are safe and efective alternatives. But that is not the same of taking the choice out of your hands and condemning blood transfusions on pseuo-religious grounds.
• 

  Fisherman

  I do not deny that either man was an accomplished speaker and could give a talk from memory.

  So why didn't you say that from the very beginning in response to what I posted? But instead you challenged what I said and I after a showed you that what I said was correct, you agree with me and and then get on a different horse and challenge me on another point. Case closed.

  I have already formed an opinion about the man.I know that no one could give me more information than I what I already have.

  These were the charismatic men of an era of JW history. JW leaders today are respected because they are JW leaders but they are not viewed with the same awe and esteem sort of speak as those charismatic men were back then.
  
• 

  Fisherman

  Do you know how quickly people die when they suffer traumatic blood loss as in vehicle accidents and injuries at work or home?

  Of course I know.

  That is another topic steve, and I am not mentally inclined right now to discuss it. Perhaps another time another thread. But I already posted in another thread that a person must be prepared to die if they refuse BT. Albeit, I would still want the freedom to choose what treatment I want for my body and not have gallons of blood shoved down my throat if that is not what I want.
  
• 

  steve2

  Fair enough Fisherman. But to comment a topic yourself and then respond with "I am not mentally inclined right now to discuss it" implies that I raised the topic. I didn't; You did - and on a thread that was only barely connected to your raisaing the topic.

  BTW, as an adult your having the choice of what you permit into your body is your absolute right. That was never questioned by me.

  But in general, gallons of blood are never shoved down a patient's throat but instead are intravenously administered. But I guess you knew that, huh?
• 

  Fisherman

  But to comment a topic yourself and then respond with "I am not mentally inclined right now to discuss it" implies that I raised the topic. I didn't; You did

  Steve, I did not start the Topic of blood on this thread. Fink did.. Blood was an off point Fink used to discredit FF. I did not mean to imply you staeted the discussion on blood knowing full well that Fink started it. And my reponse to the blood part of Fink's post is qualified by my refering to discussing blood on this thread as Marvin Shilmer Topic.
  

  But in general, gallons of blood are never shoved down a patient's throat but instead are intravenously administered. But I guess you knew that, huh?

  Steve it was just a figure of speech to illustrate forcing a BT on a JW who does not want it because he believes that a BT is the same as eating or consuming blood. In that sense they are shoving it down a jw throat when he does not want a BT.
  
• 

  sparky1

  Fisherman.....you have a very interesting way of twisting and spinning what other people post to your comments and in your own convoluted way make it seem that you were right all along. You learned a lot from your "Mother Organization". Having been raised as a Witness, it took me years to overcome that mindset myself.
• 

  Finkelstein

  Not to go off topic for this thread but Fishermen says ......

  Fink, the 6000 year teaching is very logical. It makes sense.

  Hardly any person who studied ancient sociological behavior and practices knows that the ancients did not keep exact accountable dating of peoples length of life. To remain in intellectually honest one can not make such a chronological dating from the bible or any archaeological evidence.

  This dating scheme was solely on wanting speculation and nothing else.

  What's surprising is that Russell pulled it out from previous Adventist preachers, then Franz used it 1943 and then again in the late 1960's , what balls ! but I guess that's part of being a WTS. head in pandering to the public's ignorance.
  

  FF was remarkable and brilliant in his ambit of understanding of the Bible, his memory, his intelligence and in his success in expanding JW worldwide to millions, financial growth of the org, triumphant legal victories, etc

  He didn't really have a strong understanding of the bible from a academic theological perspective..

  His memory mustn't have been not that good since, he probably with Knorr proclaimed this 6000 years dating back in 1943. He was successful in helping the proliferation of the WTS's literature that may be true but that makes him out to be crooked devious businessman which emulates the people before him like J Rutherford.

  If he was so intelligent why did he interpret an ancient Hebraic dietary law into one that isn't associated with the human diet ?
  
• 

  Fisherman

  What's surprising is that Russell pulled it out from previous Adventist preachers, then Franz used it 1943 and then again in the late 1960's , what balls ! but I guess that's part of being a WTS. head in pandering to the public's ignorance

  Fink you are just repeating yourself. I have already posted with an example that the 6000 years teaching is logical. IT makes sense to conclude that 6000 years after the creation of man would start the beginning of the milenium and that still makes sense now. WT dating methods are also logical and have basis. People with other theories can disagree with their own theories but WT dating methods are not outlandish.

  To remain in intellectually honest one can not make such a chronological dating from the bible or any archaeological evidence

  Says you Fink. The WT has published their reasons and basis for WT dating. That is their position. You do not have to agree or feel that they are honest.

  He didn't really have a strong understanding of the bible from a academic theological perspective..

  You believe that theological academic education is essential to understand the Bible message. JW disagree and I disagree. Mathew 11:25; Luke 8:10 That is our position

  If he was so intelligent why did he interpret an ancient Hebraic dietary law into one that isn't associated with the human diet ?

  Your question is rhetorical. You are actually stating an opinion.

  Fink, you post your remarks and your feelings about WT doctrine but tat does not invalidate them, and neither have you invalidated WT dating or doctrines with your theories about them. But as you admit, that is another topic and I might be lured into such a discussion at another time another thread. And you have not invalidated FF intelligence with your remarks about him. It is a pointless discussion. Look at the points I showed about WT growth. Remarkable leadership - FF for example. What have you got to show?
  
• 

  Finkelstein

  What have you got to show?

  Intellectual honesty and personal integrity, but I'm not a head editorial writer and propagandist for a religious publishing house..
  

  " The Truth " is far and away from the Jehovah's Witnesses from a theological perspective.
  

  Now when is that end of the system of things going to show up ? Dam it ! I've been waiting for 50 years now.

  The biggest mis-informative goof up or act of apostasy by the WTS and other fear mongering charlatans is that they disobey Jesus's admonishment for any of his true devoted followers to not make a time on god's own sacred time.

  The reason why most Christan based faiths do not make any proclaiming set dates ie. 1914 and identifies the WTS as a commercialized false prophet.