I am not a crook!!!
We are not a cult!
We are not a cult!
by Nosferatu 22 Replies latest jw friends
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Mary
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Sentinel
Those that belong to a cult, can never "see" that it is a cult. That's the nature of a cult. Does this make any sense?
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Oroborus21
It is funny that in every article I have read that claims that JWs are a "cult" the Dictionary's definition is not cited but instead a convenient (straw-definition) is utilized.
May it be because the dictionary's definition does not support your claim that JWs are a cult or rather may it be because the defined definition of the word "cult" applies to ALL religions.
to quote from my copy of Websters:
"cult: 1. a system of religious worship or ritual 2. a) devoted attachment to, or extravagant admiration for, a person, principle, etc., esp. when regarded as a fad [the cult of nudism] b)the object of attachment 3. a group of followers; sect"
So the primary definition, the one which scholastic authority has determined is the principle usage and meaning of the word, is one of a "system of religious worship or ritual". This accurately describes Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholics, Baptists, Muslims, etc. etc.
Obviously the meaning of the WORD itself provides no real help in the argument that JWs are a "cult" therefore I propose a different test.
I suggest that you poll 1000 persons on the street, asking them one question: "Are Jehovah's Witnesses a cult?"
The answer you will receive is that the majority of persons will respond in the negative.
Why? Opposers argue this is due to ignorance on the part of most of the actual beliefs, practices and culture within the Jehovah's Witnesses. Or It is due to the fact that most people who know JWs personally see them as a bit unusual but basically harmless good people, etc.
I suggest that Occam's Razor points us to a better solution, namely the simplest explanation.
Jehovah's Witnesses are NOT a cult (as the typical person understands and applies that term.)
Having said all of that above, what I have been concerned about is that while JWs are not a cult, there does exist within the religion certain "cultish attributes" (again as the term is popularly understood) which leads people wrongly to label them a "cult." I believe that any JW should be concerned about these cult-like attributes and that they personally and the religion collectively should endeavour to shed them so that the religion will appeal to a greater number of persons in the world.
Some of the current "cultish" or CULT-LIKE attributes are:
1. Single-minded adherence to the teachings of a group (the Governing Body/Writing Committee/Bethel) instead of single-minded adherence to the teachings of Jesus (and the inspired writings of his apostles/disciples).
2. Physically harmful teachings such as the Blood Doctrine.
3. Emotionally harmful (and irrational) teachings such as institutional Shunning of DF'd, DA'd ones instead of it being a matter of a person's conscience as to who he or she will fellowship or have association with.
4. "Performance-based" assessments of "spirituality" such as the requirements for at least one-hour of field service to be considered "active" and a satisfaction of exceeding the "national average" in order to receive "special privileges" (hello?: failure to understand statistics: average=average with half under and half over no matter what the range?!)
5. A diametric world-view, "us vs. them" mentality and paradigm, which serves to insulate the group.
6. Finally, a systematic pressure to terminate or reduce all form of association with those not part of the group. (It really is a cold irony that after a person has successfully dissolved virtually all relationships and friendships with "the world", should they "stumble" and be put out of the group via DF'ng or voluntarilly leave for whatever reason, that there remaining JW association will also be terminated leaving them to rebuild new relationships and friendships with the world once again.)
An objective consideration of JWs doctrine, belief and culture will reveal the above cult-like attributes.
Is this a case that if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it is a duck? No.
Because sometimes what walks like a duck, quacks like duck, isn't a duck.
As mentioned there is very good reason in the popular mind why JWs are not considered to be a cult.
There is one final thing that I submit in argument of this point. For everyone here, especially all of the opposers to Jehovah's Witnesses, it may be a hard pill to swallow.
One final proof that Jehovah's Witnesses are NOT a cult as that term is popularly understood and used is the following FACT:
Every year there are thousands of persons that walk away from the Organization without any harm to them, without any trace of bitterness, without any emotional anxiety, without any thoughts of their past life or growing up as a Jehovah's Witness, without so much as a glance over their shoulder. They don't participate on forums like this because they don't see any need to. They were raised "in the truth" or came "into the truth" and at some point decided they just don't believe it, they don't want it and they don't need it and are leaving. And what is more the religion and their former JW associates including family, don't care whether they come back. There are not any efforts being made to "get them back", their family members are happy for them, and continue to have good relationships with them--even if their family members are JWs.
One of the principle consequences of a real cult is that at least for a short time, there is some real emotional or even physical damage after leaving. But every year thousands of persons leave JWs without suffering any emotional or physical damage. That I submit is final proof that JWs are not a cult.
-Eduardo
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MikeMusto
very well written eduardo-
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undercover
I've never liked the word "cult" to describe the JWs or Mormons or any non-mainstream religion. Strictly speaking any religion can be or is a cult. Many exclusive clubs can be a cult. Hells Angels are a cult. My aunt's sewing group is a cult. Some are more dangerous than others. The word "cult" has taken on a meaning to the normal person that the dictionary doesn't always describe.
Mind control is the tactic that should be looked at by any group. Do they use it? Is it harmful? There is where the WTS is guilty, IMHO. Calling them a cult just lends itself to name-calling, but when you look at techniques and tactics and see a mind contol pattern, you can argue the point more effectively.
Anyway "The Cult" was a kick-ass rock group of the 80s/90s anyway.
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hawkaw
Well first off I use the words "high control group" over the word "cult".
Second point .. I noticed this quote:
There is one final thing that I submit in argument of this point. For everyone here, especially all of the opposers to Jehovah's Witnesses, it may be a hard pill to swallow.
One final proof that Jehovah's Witnesses are NOT a cult as that term is popularly understood and used is the following FACT:
Every year there are thousands of persons that walk away from the Organization without any harm to them, without any trace of bitterness, without any emotional anxiety, without any thoughts of their past life or growing up as a Jehovah's Witness, without so much as a glance over their shoulder. They don't participate on forums like this because they don't see any need to. They were raised "in the truth" or came "into the truth" and at some point decided they just don't believe it, they don't want it and they don't need it and are leaving. And what is more the religion and their former JW associates including family, don't care whether they come back. There are not any efforts being made to "get them back", their family members are happy for them, and continue to have good relationships with them--even if their family members are JWs.
One of the principle consequences of a real cult is that at least for a short time, there is some real emotional or even physical damage after leaving. But every year thousands of persons leave JWs without suffering any emotional or physical damage. That I submit is final proof that JWs are not a cult.
I have a tough time swallowing that. You are basically using a "strawman" in a very bad way. Your same argument could be used by those thousands who leave the Mormons, the Moonies or the scientologists without any problems every year too. But others coming out of the groups do have severe mental illnesses and depression. A certain percentage of people coming out of these groups have no problems, other just have the emptiness feeling and then while others have serious problems.
Its not how people react after they leave.
Its the "fear" tactics used to keep you in the group and keep you quiet. These include but are not limited to shunning and labeling a person by family and friends, loss of God, loss of privileges, loss of business since most JWs life is centred around the group et. al. . The shunning and labeling a person an "apostate" (classic creed bigotry at its worst) by the family and friends only stops if you repent and come back into the Borg. This is obviously something you seriously missed when you stated the following to the board - "And what is more the religion and their former JW associates including family, don't care whether they come back. There are not any efforts being made to "get them back", their family members are happy for them, and continue to have good relationships with them--even if their family members are JWs. "
hawk
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waiting
Finely put, Hawk......as usual.
Hello Oro......
Nice to meet you.
Every year there are thousands of persons that walk away from the Organization without any harm to them, without any trace of bitterness, without any emotional anxiety, without any thoughts of their past life or growing up as a Jehovah's Witness, without so much as a glance over their shoulder. They don't participate on forums like this because they don't see any need to.
Your whole post is totally unprovable. I can turn around and say the total opposite......and my statement would be just a valid - because there is no proof for a statement like you made.
lol - Richard Nixon always believed the Silent Majority supported him. How did he know? It's an unprovable statement.....just like yours.
I believe the psychologist used by the WTBTS also said that the Moonies weren't a cult. "People were free to come & go as they pleased."
But Jehovah's Witnesses make it incredibly hard to leave their organization.
1. If a jw walks away from the WTBTS - and wants to keep their jw family, they can never do ANYTHING as spoken against by the WTBTS.
Vote.
Celebrate a birthday.
Go to another church.
Divorce & remarry.
Have sex (and let it be known) with someone not their marriage mate.
Actively homosexual.....
Wear a crucifix.
Participate on this forum.
Join the military.
Put a country's flag, Santa Claus, Cross, Easter Bunny, Christmas Tree in their front yard.
Lord, the list is endless of what a jw (even inactive) can't do publicly. In order to keep their family & friends....sometimes their employment too...... many a walk-away jw must slink for the rest of their lives.
That's a heavy loss in my book. It's either that....or lose many things/people they still hold dear.
Sure, some jw families don't care. But then, those type of jw families aren't viewed as "strong for Jehovah" because they aren't following closely the teachings of the WTBTS. Those families aren't "disciplining in righteousness those erring in their ways."
waiting
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waiting
Non-JW: You've been brainwashed!
Brainwashed Dub: Yes, I have - my mind has been washed clean by Jehovah's organization!
Actually, this statement was used from the platform in one of the meetings................and the audience enthusiastically clapped & laughed.
Damned proud to agree that they're brainwashed.
They may not be in truest sense of the term..............but they're sure dumb enough not to appreciate an insult when given. And so was I.
waiting
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undercover
Non-JW: You've been brainwashed!
Actually, this statement was used from the platform in one of the meetings................and the audience enthusiastically clapped & laughed.Brainwashed Dub: Yes, I have - my mind has been washed clean by Jehovah's organization!
I heard it said from the platform this way: In an experience an older brother said he was accused of being brainwashed. The brother replied, "Having to live in Satans old world, our brains need a good washing...." and the audience applauded most appreciateavly while I sank down into my seat embarrassed.
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MikeMusto
In my congergation 2 people just decided to walk away -just stopped going to meetings
They were neither df'd or dissac. I spoke to one in the area they other day ..they are perfectly
happy after spending 14 years as a witness..they are are neither depressed, suicidal or confused.