What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?

by Vanderhoven7 263 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Sea Breeze

  I’m interested in what the New Testament says for its own sake. Having considered it a lot, I have come to the view that Jesus himself would have been astounded that others equated him with God.

  SBF, I couldn't help but notice that you did not provide any scriptural references to support your "view".

  His earliest followers viewed him as a messenger from God

  Sure, like is own brothers who didn't believe him "early" on? (John 7: 5)

  Why would you identify with people "early" in Jesus ministry and not those "later" in his ministry that witnessed his resurrection and viewed him as God?

  "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God."

  The Bible indicates that all three Persons of the Trinity were involved in Jesus’ resurrection. Galatians 1:1 says that the Father raised Jesus from the dead. First Peter 3:18 says that the Spirit raised Jesus from the dead (see also Romans 1:4, and note that Romans 8:11 clearly says that God will resurrect believers “through His Spirit”). And in John 2:19 Jesus predicts that He will raise Himself from the dead (see also John 10:18). So, when we answer the question of who resurrected Jesus, we can say God did. And by that we can mean it was the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

  This has been bedrock Christian doctrine for 2000 years. Would you like to see references from the "early" church leaders, some personally trained by the apostles who often spoke of Jesus as God. I've got plenty of those references too.
  
  
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  Vanderhoven7

  Here is my understanding as I see scripture.

  Eternal life according to John is knowing (ginosko) both Father and Son. Jesus says that no one knows the Father but the Son and to whoever the Son will reveal Him . I am the Way the Truth and the Life...no one comes to the Father except through me. There are no exceptions.

  The Holy Spirit glorifies and reveals the Son, the Son the Father unselfishly blessing the other.... and the world, calling men to repentance and faith.

  It is not a competition. But the problem with Jehovah's Witnesses is that they have reduced the Son to a creature. They do not glorify the Son nor do they honor Him as they think they do the Father. They do not call on Him as all NT Christians did, they do not come to Him and fellowship with Him or share their burdens with Him as He asks. They have no relationship with Jesus other than to tack His unglorious name onto their prayers. They cannot even say, "Thank you Jesus for dying for me!" Oh yes they say, I have a relationship with Jesus... and yet they have never communicated or directed one syllable His way.

  They must be born again, by receiving the Spirit of Christ or they will remain in darkness without seeing or entering God's kingdom.

  It's Jesus ... or no Jehovah. That's the way God planned it. You don't get to Jesus through Jehovah. It's the other way round.
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  Fisherman

  There seems to be a deflection from the topic which diverts attention to Hebrew pronunciations of Jesus and Jehovah. That ain’t the point. The subject is about JW using Gos’s name over Jesus regardless of pronunciations. I also pointed out in my post that very name Jesus means that the salvation is coming from YHWH. Jesus is only a fellow creature.
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  Vanderhoven7

  "Jesus is only a fellow creature."

  Is this mere "fellow creature" of yours entitled to the same honor as Jehovah?

  How do you give him equal honor to the Father?

  Do you know this fellow creature you call Jesus?

  Do you have a relationship with this fellow creature?

  Can you describe your relationship with him?

  Thanks
  
  
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  GodBeliever

  "So, when we answer the question of who resurrected Jesus, we can say God did. And by that we can mean it was the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit."

  Yes SB "you can say" but the bible doesn't say and we know what says in the bible about those who adds words to it.

  Jesus clearly explained what oneness with his Father means. If you don't believe Him it's only because you don't want to give up your understanding of who God is. Jesus always pointed out he was the son of God not god himself. Again if you don't want to accept that I am not going to argue.

  "I am no longer going to be in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I am coming to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, so that they may be one just as We are. “I am not asking on behalf of these alone, but also for those who believe in Me through their word, that they may all be one; just as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. The glory which You have given Me I also have given to them, so that they may be one, just as We are one; I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and You loved them, just as You loved Me."

  John 17:11‭, ‬20‭-‬23

  Why is so difficult to understand these words of Jesus?

  I don't expect all the Christians Jesus talking about here to be added to your understanding of God.
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  Vanderhoven7

  The following verses also show that Christians were to rely on Christ's name for all things, because he was their mediator for all. (1 Tim. 2:5)

  (Isa. 62:2) ...a new name.....Jehovah’s own mouth will designate. (see Acts 11:26)

  (Matthew 10:22) And you will be hated by all people on account of my name,......

  (Matthew 18:20) For where there are two or three gathered together in my name,....

  (Matthew 19:29) .......for the sake of my name......will inherit everlasting life.

  (Matthew 24:9) .......and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name.

  (Luke 10:17) “...even the demons are made subject to us by the use of your name.”

  (Luke 21:12) ......brought before kings and governors for the sake of my name.

  (Luke 21:16, 17) .......and you will be hated by all people because of my name.

  (John 2:23) .....many people put their faith in his (Jesus') name........

  (John 5:27, 28) .....in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice..

  (John 14:26) But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name,

  (John 15:16) ......no matter what you ask the Father in my name,

  (Acts 2:38) Repent, and let each one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ

  (Acts 3:6) In the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, walk!”

  (Acts 4:10) .....in the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene,

  (Acts 5:40) . . .and ordered them to stop speaking on the basis of Jesus’ name.

  (Acts 5:41) ....counted worthy to be dishonored in behalf of his [Jesus'] name.

  (Acts 9:14-16) .....all those calling on your name.....he must suffer for my name.”

  (Acts 10:48) .....he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

  (Acts 11:26) ..........the disciples were by divine providence called Christians.

  (Acts 16:18) “I order you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.”

  (Acts 19:5) On hearing this, they got baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

  (Acts 22:16) ....get baptized, and wash your sins away by your calling on his name.’

  (1 Corinthians 6:11) ...been declared righteous in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

  (2 Corinthians 5:15) .....no longer for themselves, but for him who died for them.

  (Philippians 2:10) .....so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend......

  (Hebrews 13:15) Through him (Jesus) let us always offer to God a sacrifice of praise, that is, the fruit of our lips that make public declaration to his name.*

  * Exactly whose name was to be "publicly declared" by Christians?
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  slimboyfat

  Exactly whose name was to be "publicly declared" by Christians?

  He whose name is understood to mean “Jehovah is salvation”, Yehoshua, to the glory of God the Father (Phil 2:10, 11)
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  Sea Breeze

  Jesus is only a fellow creature.

  @Fisherman - That is simply a lie. I can't help but to be so blunt sometimes. But, it is a WT lie.

  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1: 3

  Jesus is the Creator of everything ever created.

  Here's some more scriptures for you to consider - Jesus is called the EVERLASTING FATHER in Is. 9:6

  “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”

  And....

  “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” (Revelation 1:8)

  I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. (Revelation 22:13)

  And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he (Jesus) laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: (Revelation 1:17)

  Even his enemies (hostile testimony) hated him for what he claimed:

  The Jews answered Him, “We are not stoning You for a good work, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, claim to be God.” - John 10:33

  Micah 5: 2 states that Jesus, the future King of Israel had no beginning:

  But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

  Jesus is uncreated according to Scripture. Can you see how before the WT came along, that people would think this just by reading scripture?
  

  
  
  
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  Sea Breeze

  Yes SB "you can say" but the bible doesn't say and we know what says in the bible about those who adds words to it.

  GB - What on earth are you talking about? The scriptures cited (the ones you ignored) form the basis of why we can say that God raised Jesus from the dead BECAUSE THE BIBLE SAYS THAT HE DID!

  The Bible indicates that all three Persons of the Trinity were involved in Jesus’ resurrection. Galatians 1:1 says that the Father raised Jesus from the dead. First Peter 3:18 says that the Spirit raised Jesus from the dead (see also Romans 1:4, and note that Romans 8:11 clearly says that God will resurrect believers “through His Spirit”). And in John 2:19 Jesus predicts that He will raise Himself from the dead (see also John 10:18). So, when we answer the question of who resurrected Jesus, we can say God did.

  the one whom God raised from the dead, a fact to which we are witnesses. - Acts 3: 15

  So scripture says that :

  1. Jesus claimed that he would raise himself from the dead

  2. The Father would raise Jesus from the dead

  3. The Spirit would raise Jesus and believers from the dead

  4. God raised Jesus from the dead.

  So which one did it? The answer is yes.
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  truth_b_known

  Prior to Paul appointing himself as an Apostle and breaking ways with the Jewish followers of Jesus in Jerusalem there was only the Old Testament. That and the books not made part of the Bible were the only scripture.

  Then Paul and his followers, including the zealot John, deified Jesus and wrote the New Testament. The New Testament is Christian scripture. It is about worshippers of Jesus, for worshippers of Jesus, written by worshippers of Jesus.

  Christianity is the worship of Jesus as the Sovereign Lord and Savior of the Universe. Christians spend as much time talking about YHWH as Jehovah's Witnesses spend speaking about Jesus and his Gospel. Vanderhoven7 and SeaBreeze do a wonderful job of proving that modern Christianity is the descendent of the early form of Christianity that survived. There were several types of Christianity with varying beliefs on the divinity of Jesus, but in the end the version that raised Jesus to the position of God, Creator, Savior reigned supreme.

  Jehovah's Witnesses are obsessed with the earliest form worship that the followers of Jesus had. They were basically practicing Jews who also accepted Jesus' teachings. They still celebrated the Jewish festivals and went to the temple. That is why they were hated by the Sadducees, and Pharisees. It was their job to keep Judaism pure and free from non-Judaic religious belief or practice. Jehovah's Witnesses are an offshoot of that early, brief period that existed shortly after Jesus death.