Changing the Date of the Memorial?

by KalebOutWest 18 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • KalebOutWest
    KalebOutWest
    Nisan 1 starts when the new moon nearest the spring equinox becomes visible at sunset in Jerusalem. Counting 14 days from that event, is always Nisan 14.

    To illustrate how the above is false due to Jewish leap years:

    Last year was a Jewish leap year, wherein we had to add an additional month at end of the year. The extra month is called Adar I, Adar Rishon, or Adar Aleph. And then the regular month of Adar is called Adar II, Adar Sheni, or Adar Bet (I know, it's confusing).

    This places everything around 29/30 days later.

    So if we use Duran's calculation, what happens?

    In 2024, the new moon that was closest to the spring equinox in Jerusalem was on March 10 at 9:02 AM. The spring equinox was on March 20 at 3:08 AM.

    To determine the beginning of Nisan 1 in Jerusalem, add two hours and twenty-one minutes to the time of the new moon on March 10. This would make the beginning of Nisan 1 at 11:23 AM on March 10 and Nisan 14 on March 24.

    That was also the date when Jehovah's Witnesses observed the Memorial.

    But, alas, last year was a leap year on the Jewish calendar. You have to have leap years because it is a lunar calendar--otherwise it goes out of whack. It has always been that way.

    That calculation was wrong.

    Last year, Nisan 14 landed on April 21, 2024. Why do I know? Because Passover started on Monday, April 22. That was Nisan 15 of last year.

    It was a leap year.

    Both the Jehovah's Witnesses and Duran were wrong. They did not follow the way the Sanhedrin or the modern or the ancient Jews did it.

    They forget the Jewish leap year.

    Thus you have to use the Jewish calendar system and pay attention to when a leap year goes in and when it does not. It does not rely on the Spring Equinox or when anything is "visible in the sky."
  • Anony Mous
    Anony Mous

    @Kaleb, you are correct, I verified the calculation and the JWs forgot about the leap year. The other calculations are also correct, the Jewish calendar is not lunar or solar, it is lunisolar. I don’t know how the JWs got to their calculations, but they are off for no reason I can find.

    The Metonic cycle was in use during the Second Temple (invented by the Greeks a few hundred years BC) is still in use today by both the Jews and Buddhist, Islam uses a lunar calendar and because in Islam any writings are infallible, it no longer keeps track of the solar system.

    The problem if they are going to use a strict lunar system as they claim by astronomical observation of the number of months (although the equinox is related to the sun) and not use leap years, the memorial will have to shift slowly over 33 years and coinciding with the Jewish calendar will happen once every 33 years. However this is not how they calculate, they use a solar calendar with astronomical observation of the lunar cycle, basically, had the ancients done this, they’d be inserting random leap days every year. It would be extremely difficult to calculate anything anywhere in the future without a modern computer, as the earth’s solar equinox drifting wouldn’t be established for over a thousand years. You can’t just decree a new calculation every so often.

  • KalebOutWest
    KalebOutWest

    You are correct, Anony Mous.

    I generally don't say things like "Metonic" or "lunisolar" as by the time I go there I've confused people enough with why Adar II has all the days that Adar I should have but Adar I does not (and shouldn't we call that Adar II instead? I personally think so.)

    My original question was why are future dates for the Memorial now on Nisan 16? I want to know what they are doing. Hmmm...

    I get the big mistake from last year. I mean, even my Christian friends--Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant--and atheists, nones, etc., knew that Passover was a month later. How did the JWs forget the leap year? How did they do the Memorial on the wrong day so badly? It shows how much they don't really know.

    How are they determining the date now? And why are they suddenly landing on the later date? It's weird. They are observing the Memorial on "Second Seder" night. Huh?

    But then again, when are they ever NOT weird, am I right? There would be no conversations here if they were normal.

  • Anony Mous
    Anony Mous

    They’re basically using the Gregorian calendar of when the equinox happens and then adjusting that for the lunar cycle.

    It is ‘a’ calendar that nobody uses because it is very complex, not impossible to calculate because it is still astronomical, but not something that is easily understood as the other systems that are purely lunar cycle or solar.

    The error shifts the day around in the season so the day will appear to jump around, very bad for an agricultural society that needs to plan crops around holidays.

  • Duran
    Duran

    new moon

    March 29, 2025

    14 days later would be what day in April 2025?

    When is Nisan 14 2025?

    2025: April 12

    April 12th

    April 12

  • KalebOutWest
    KalebOutWest

    Duran,

    Jewish days begin at sunset.

    At sunset on April 12, Nisan 14 changes to Nisan 15.

    Pesach starts on the 15th day of the Hebrew month of Nisan, which is considered the first month of the Hebrew year. The Rabbinical Jewish calendar is adjusted to align with the solar calendar in such a way that 15 Nisan always coincides with Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday, or Saturday. The Hebrew day starts and ends at sunset, so the holiday starts at sunset the day before.


    --Passover, Wikipedia

  • Duran
    Duran

    Right, so in order to eat the meal or drink the wine/eat the bread at the appropriate time, one would have to prepare at the right time. So, one would have to determine what day corresponds with Nisan 14 and then know to wait until sunset on that day to have the meal, etc. In this case it is being said that Sat April 12 corresponds to Nisan 14 this year, so on that day after sunset is when the Memorial is observed. The fact that you are saying that at sunset it turns to Nisan 15 does not change that in the US that it will still be Saturday April 12 until 12:00AM.

    When will a so-called Jew on the Eastcoast of the US eat their Passover meal...on the evening of Sat April 12 (Nisan 15) or on the evening of Sun April 13 (Nisan 16)?

  • TonusOH
    TonusOH

    I don't think the WTS should have tried to be so picky about the date. They don't observe the memorial as part of a larger observance or celebration, so they could have picked a more consistent day and time. For example, make it the second Saturday in April, or something like that. Based on the handful of times that they missed the exact date, and the changes in the next few years, it is clear that Jehovah wasn't picky about it.

  • Anony Mous
    Anony Mous

    @Duran: As previously pointed out: The day is close (off by one) this year, but on other years it has diverged as much as 10 days (the accumulated error on the lunar cycle could be up to 11 days per year I believe).

    Nisan 14 will have ended on the night of Saturday, April 12, 2025, the memorial is supposed to take place at the beginning of that day? Saturday April 12 after sundown is Nisan 15.

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