Still, no answers to my questions...
Read the posts on this site by “scholar” on this topic and my commentary on those threads. But if you have facts other than the interpretation and conclusions please show. Your posts so far are assertions.
20 Things I Don't Understand about Jehovah's Witnesses
by Vanderhoven7 72 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
Fisherman
-
Vanderhoven7
Talking about interpretation. Here is another one to add to the list
I don't understand how anyone can legitimately say
That the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses is biblical when every doctrine which is original and unique to Jehovah's Witnesses is extra-biblical.
Every last unique doctrine is established by eisegesis not exegesis.
-
joao
Read the posts on this site by “scholar” on this topic and my commentary on those threads. But if you have facts other than the interpretation and conclusions please show. Your posts so far are assertions.
I'm not going to search for any other posts to read anything you've already written because you've answered to one of my posts here telling me wrong. So, the discussion takes place here.
You just need to open any encyclopedia to know that Jerusalem didn't fall in 607 AEC or read The Gentle Times Reconsidered. Therefore 1914 means nothing! What proof do you have to prove me wrong?
-
joao
@Fisherman
I keep my questions:
- How did WT correct the child abuse situations?
- Are you saying that God doesn't know what He wants to say when he tells His people what to say in His name?
- Did God and Jesus tell us to worry about dates? Where?
- Did they tell us to focus on preaching and not care for for elderly, the weak, the poor, the ill...? Where?
- Did they tell us that the most important thing is a piece of paper with a bunch of hours per month?! Where?
- Can God lie, like the WT does all the time?!
- Did Jesus tell us to be arrogant and presumptuous like the WT/GB are?
As you can see, they are not rhetorical questions, they are direct questions.
-
DesirousOfChange
But the approach to Bible interpretation is honest and correct and there is good reason to believe they are correct~ Fisherman
I say there are A LOT MORE reasons (past performance) to believe they are WRONG AGAIN!
-
Vanderhoven7
Fisherman,
Do you admit that the Watchtower is guilty of prophetic speculation?
If not consider the hype around 1925 and the millions campaign and who was guilty for this obvious speculation.
1922 “We have no doubt whatever in regard to the chronology relating to the dates of 1874, 1914, 1918, and 1925. It was on this line of reckoning that the dates 1874, 1914, and 1918 were located; and the Lord has placed the stamp of his seal upon 1914 and 1918 beyond any possibility of erasure. What further evidence do we need? Using this same measuring line…. it is an easy matter to locate 1925, probably in the fall, for the beginning of the antitypical jubilee. There can be no more question about 1925 than there was about 1914.” (Watchtower, p. 150, May 15, 1922)
1922 “This chronology is not of man, but of God. Being of divine origin and divinely corroborated, present-truth chronology stands in a class by itself, absolutely and unqualifiedly correct….” (Watchtower, July 15, 1922 p. 217)
1922 ‘1914 ended the Gentile Times…The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures…by then the great crisis will be reached and probably passed’ (Watchtower Sept. 1, 1922, p. 262)
1923 ‘1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures…the Christian has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had (so far as the Scriptures reveal) upon which to base his faith in the coming deluge’ (Watchtower April 1, 1923, p. 106)
1924 “No doubt many boys and girls who read this book will live to see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Daniel, and those other men of old come forth in the glory of their better resurrection, of perfect in mind and body. It will not take long for Christ to appoint them to their post of honor and authority as his earthly representatives. The world and all the present conveniences will seen strange to them at first, but they will soon become accustomed to the new methods. They may have some amusing experiences at first; for they never saw telephones, radios, automobiles, electric lights, aeroplanes, steam engines, and many other things so familiar to us. (The Way To Paradise, 1924, p. 226)
1924 “Surely there is not the slightest room for doubt in the mind of a truly consecrated child of God that the Lord Jesus is present and has been since 1874.” (Watchtower, Jan. 1, 1924, p5)
1924 “The year 1925 is a date definitely and clearly marked in Scriptures, even more clearly than that of 1914. (Watchtower 1924, p. 211)
1925 “It is to be expected that Satan will try to inject into the minds of the consecrated, the thought that 1925 should see an end to the work.” (Watchtower, Sept. 1925, p. 262)
1925 “The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything.” (Watchtower 1925, p. 56)
1925 “The year 1925 is here. With great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during this year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. In his own due time God will accomplish his purposes concerning his people. Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year.” (Watchtower, Jan. 1, 1925, p. 3)
1926 “Some anticipated that the work would end in 1925, but the Lord did not state so. The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything.” (Watchtower 1926 p. 232.)
JWs were told that they would be able to call Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in Jerusalem in 1926 and ask that Granny be raised. And they were encouraged to add on an extra room or two to accommodate the new arrivals.
-
Konagirl
punkofnice - How do the Governing Body receive their communication from God exactly?
It’s a twisted ball of yarn for sure. God’s Word as stated in scripture is “inspired”. 2 Tim 3:16-17 The words of Christ are of “Spirit”, his teachings are inspired. The “word” from “Jehovah’s organization” is also “inspired”. Since God or Jesus apparently direct the organization through words, then whatever doctrines are distributed, are or become, inspired. I don’t know what year this teaching began, but we know the organization was labeled by its false teachers as the “spirit-directed organization”; thus, it is inspired. So, the GB can easily say they are not inspired, but then direct attention to the source of the organization’s inspiration, as their scapegoat for their failed teachings. Either it’s not God’s time to show them “new light”, or “Jesus did not tell us that his faithful slave would produce perfect spiritual food.” (w 17/02)
And yet Jesus said, “If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.” John 15:7 He is Truth. His words would never falter, never be wrong. (John 14:6)
It's horrible that these men convince JWs that any new words/doctrine from the mouths of uninspired men, are “truth”. They’ve created their own modified “word of God”, to fit their organization - their idol.
I can totally see the spiritual “beasts” of Revelation applying to the Watchtower and its false prophets. One “directs” the other. (Rev 13:11,12) Anyone who rejects either one or both, is “killed”, disfellowshipped. The UN, whom they say is the “Beast” of Rev 13:1 doesn’t hunt down and kill people who reject it – especially the “saints”/chosen ones. That entity doesn't even know who they are. (Rev 13:5-7;11:1-3,7)
Rev 13:15 - The second beast was ·given power [or allowed] to give ·life [breath; a spirit] to the idol of the first one so that the idol could speak. And the second beast was ·given power [allowed] to ·command [cause; make] all who will not worship the ·image [idol] of the beast to be killed. (EXB)
1 Tim 4:1
-
Vanderhoven7
@ Fisherman
False. JW have erred in interpreting the year of the great tribulation but not in interpreting prophecy or scriptures relating to the time of the end
Your assertion that the WTS only got the date for the Great Tribulation wrong is false.
What about the date for the first resurrection?
"Why have Jehovah's Witnesses disfellowshipped for apostasy some who still profess belief in God, the Bible, and Jesus Christ? … Do we have Scriptural precedent for taking such a strict position? Indeed we do! Paul wrote about some in his day: "Their word will spread like gangrene. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of that number. These very men have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred; and they are subverting the faith of some." (2 Timothy 2:17, 18; see also Matthew 18:6.) There is nothing to indicate that these men did not believe in God, in the Bible, in Jesus' sacrifice. Yet, on this one basic point, what they were teaching as to the time of the resurrection, Paul rightly branded them as apostates, with whom faithful Christians would not fellowship." Watchtower 1986 April 1 pp. 30, 31
So, Hymenaeus and Philetus were branded as apostates for teaching a wrong date for the resurrection.
Curiously though, for close to 50 years prior to 1927, the Watch Tower Society, based on certain eschatological calculations, taught that the first resurrection began in 1878.
“In 1878 the process of setting up the kingdom began. The Lord raised the sleeping saints. WT 6/1/1922, p.174”
“Our Lord's resurrection occurred three and a half years after his advent as the Messiah, in A.D. 29; and the resurrection of his body, the Church, we have seen, was due in the year 1878, three and a half years after his second advent, in October 1874." Thy Kingdom Come p. 305
It was only in 1927 that that the date for the first resurrection was changed to 1918
"One of the many enlightening truths that God now gave his witnesses was about the members of God's spiritual nation who had died physically. This was in 1927. In that year the witnesses understood that the dead spiritual Israelites had been raised in 1918 to life in heaven with Christ Jesus. It was an invisible resurrection, of course." From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained p.192
So WTS leaders classified Hymenaeus and Philetus as apostates for exactly the same error….promoting a false date for the resurrection of the saints which they committed for over 50 years.
To be fair, the only conclusion I can unhypocritically come to is that the Watchtower Organization is apostate along with Hymenaeus and Philetus.
-
Longlivetherenegades
That the last days in Acts 2:17 is different from 2 Timothy 3:1😂😂😂😂😂😂
That they cannot see the TAUTOLOGY in MINISTERIAL SERVANT despite their arrogant theological scholarship 😂😂😂
-
punkofnice
Although I am not really into 'religion' and 'scripture' as such, I must say this.
That there is no clear agreement on what the scriptures in the Bible mean, it makes me very sceptical.
Folk seem to get bogged down in a particular 'Holy Book' as the one and only one. Then they can't agree on what bits of it mean.
What about what the Quran or Rig Vedas say?
Isn't it possible to read a 'Holy Book' and all come to the same conclusion? If not, I see a whacking flaw in the whole thing.
Personally, I know the Jobots have bonkers beliefs that they don't seem to see themselves as if hypnotised.
20 things is the tip of a very cruddy iceberg of Jobot nonsense.
But, believe what ya wanna. When I read what you believe it makes me wonder if posters even have the correct 'Holy Book', correct God and belief system.
Personally, I seek healthful wisdom from where-ever I find it......bugger all in the Jobot cult though!