Been witnessing today - first time in over 2 years!!

by The Searcher 24 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  The Searcher

  And it felt wonderful!!

  I went into the city to where I knew there was a "Cosmopolitan witnessing" trolley, because I wanted to ask a simple Bible-based question. The trolley was attended by an elder and a sister who was another elder's wife. (Her elder husband was standing idly by leaning against a wall, about 20 feet away)

  I was immediately offered literature by the elder - but I politely declined. I asked if he would answer a question for me, and he said that that was what he was there for.

  Question: Your organization teaches that Christ will reign over the earth for 1000 years - how different will life be on earth?

  Answer: Very different. No more crime, violence, or wars.

  I then said that his organization's literature said differently - that people would be practicing vile things during Christ's reign.

  He said that was nonsense, and that he'd never read anything like that in the publications! (in 40 years) I informed him that numerous WTBTS references regarding John 5:29 clearly stated that fact, and asked him to look at his WT Library. Sadly, he only had the online library on his gadget. I told him to check it on his CD ROM library at home.

  After a lengthy discussion (going in circles) about the org's interpretation of John 5:29, he agreed that some people would practice vile deeds during the 1000 years. 1st U-turn!

  The female J.W. tossed in Romans 6:7 and said that dead people were acquitted of their sins. I thanked her for quoting that verse, and said that if she read verses 2,4,6,8, & 11, she'd see the context showed that Paul was speaking about a figurative death - dying to a former sinful way of life!

  I eventually got the elder to read verse 2 of Romans 6. After he read it, I asked him if he could now see that the "death" referred to in verse 7 was figurative, and he said "Yes, I can see it in the context." 2nd U-turn!
  

  As the discussion was drawing to a close, his voice changed and he said, "Searcher, the tone of the conversation has changed, and you're having a go at our organization. You are free to write to our organization and ask them any of your questions."

  Putting the spotlight on the Brooklyn golden calf was starting to get to him, so I thanked him for his time and walked away.

  For my own benefit, I used a concealed voice recorder for the discussion.

  Bottom line - He thought he understood 2 of his org's dogmas which I asked about, and tried his best to defend the org.

  Witnessing for the org was never this good!
  
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  Ding

  Great job!
  
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  slimboyfat

  That's an interesting point about there being badness during the thousand years on the basis of John 5:29. They don't show that in the pictures.

  Are you a Bible believing Christian still? I'm not sure I'd want to use the Bible in a discussion in a way that indicated I believe it has authority. But I see the angle of defending the Watchtower position against the JW, and the irony of him taking the wrong side.

  I mostly pass JWs at carts by these days. I am at a loss to know what I can tell them that would do any good. JWs who are full in are apt to turn any sort of conversation you have with them into evidence that their religion is true.

  If you present as a member of the public with a question it confirms their identity as a person who answers the truth from the Bible.

  If you catch them out in some way then you may be labelled an opposer or apostate, in which case this is further proof that they gave the true religion because, persecution!

  JWs have been so well prepared mentally to fit any sort of interaction with anyone into a narrative that confirms that they have the truth that it's virtually impregnable.

  I am convinced that JWs rarely if ever are dissuaded from believing the religion on the basis of rational argument.
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  Bobcat

  Slim, Searcher was using the WT's interpretation of John 5:29. The irony that I saw in Searcher's post was the elder's natural response to the reading of John 5:29 was different from the WT's interpretation. Unfortunately (for the elder), his WT Library app only uses recent (2000 and forward) publications.

  (John 5:28, 29 NWT) . . .Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.

  In the WT's interpretation, "those who did good things. . . those who practiced vile things. . ." refers to what they did after they "come out" of the "memorial tombs." This interpretation makes nonsense of the verb tenses, According to the WT, the people come out of the tombs and then the viewpoint suddenly shifts to the end of the 1000 years and looks back at what happened during that time where people 'practice good or vile things.' The WT needs this to be explained this way because in WT theology only the 144,000 get life right away. The "great crowd," despite having served God all their lives in this system, when they get into the Millennium, they suddenly become no better off than every pagan who never gave God a second thought.

  What Jesus is saying is that those who practice good or vile things now will have different outcomes when they are resurrected. The 'good . . . vile' saying is a merism, like saying "I searched high and low" or "lock, stock and barrell." John 5:29 includes everyone by referring to the two opposite extremes.

  
  
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  stuckinarut2

  Im tempted to ask trolley attenders this:

  "With the worlds attention on the USA elections, does your religion have a preference as to who gets in?"

  Of course they will probably reply that they are "neutral in all world political affairs" right ?

  Then I would steer the conversation towards whether they should be involved with the United Nations?

  You see where I'm going here?

  Then steer it toward whether flags are appropriate for Christians to display.

  You all see where I'm going here too don't you?

  It could make for an interesting conversation!
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  steve2

  Trying to "reach" JWs over doctrine has got to be a waste of time. You're right: it goes round and round and round. I prefer my aircraft to land not just kept encircling the runway.

  But to each their own. Are you game for round 2 or 3?

  When would you be able to just walk passed them without the urge to try to reach them?
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  JunkYardDog

  nice work searcher. any time you can stump a jw is a good thing. it don't matter the topic, they may not show it . But they know when they been stumped. i always stump jw's then i steamroll them for not having accurate knowledge of what ever topic. then i steamroll them some more to the point they know I embarrassed them. as long as they are willing to talk I just keep burying them... jyd
  
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  freddo

  Keep up the good work Searcher. Don't ignore the cart dummies. Stuff like this will lodge in at least some of their minds.

  Can you point us in the direction of specific JW literature that says some will be practicing vile things in the 1,000 year reign? I can then plant it here and there in the minds of "deserving ones".

  BTW - it's "Metropolitan" not "Cosmopolitan". As in "Are you qualified to do the Metropolitan Cart Dummy Work, brother?"
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  redpilltwice

  Good job searcher! You should do some more witnessing.
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  Bobcat

  it-2 788-89 gives the WT's convoluted explanation of John 5:29. That is on the WT Library app.