Been witnessing today - first time in over 2 years!! (page 2)

Diogenesister

Well you've opened my eyes, that's extremely interesting. And the poster underneath Bobcat who explained it some more ( Merism) I hadn't thought about the worthlessness of the poor great crowd whose good works now count for nothing. Maybe tested unto death here only to be tested again in WT's paradise. ....how unfair when the GoBod gets a cosy life at Warwick and gets a pass straight up to heaven. Yuk.

Good witnessing, and as they say " baby steps...". Who are we to say how these people really think, there has to have been a last day we all went in service for the Watchtower Corp., be it last week or 40 years ago.

stan livedeath

the cart witnessing work is a waste of time.

so is trying to reason with them.

unless you asked them what single thing would destroy their faith.

The Searcher

SBF - I didn't leave Christianity when I left the cult. Also, my honest reason for asking the questions was to plant seeds by showing him that J.W.'s do not teach that the org's "144,001 rulers" will be allowing people to practice vile things. I know - Jesus said some seeds would fall on stony ground and never grow, but I had a couple of seeds planted 5 years ago, and I benefitted from it. I wholeheartedly agree with everything else you say - and the elder's reactionary responses proved it 100%. However, who knows if something will click in his mind one day, and he joins other ex-elders here? :)

STEVE2 - I wouldn't approach the same cart twice, because they'd probably assume I had an agenda, rather than wanting to learn their "truth." (and they'd be right! :)

FREDDO - References to John 5:29 in the Watchtower Library CD ROM:

it-2 p. 789 Resurrection - "They are judged, not on what they did before hearing his voice, but on what they do after hearing it. namely,.... a position at the end of the period of judgment,.... Only at the end of the judgment period would it be demonstrated who had done good or bad.

re chap. 41 p. 300 par. 16 - "Here "life" and "judgment" contrast with each other, showing that those resurrected ones who "practiced vile things" after being instructed in the inspired Scriptures and scrolls are judged to be unworthy of life.

rs p. 338 par. 1 Resurrection - "Both those who formerly did good things and those who formerly practiced bad things will be "judged individually according to their deeds." What deeds?......... So, at John 5:28,　29a, Jesus was pointing ahead to the resurrection; then, in the remainder of verse 29, he was expressing the outcome after they had been uplifted to human perfection and been put on judgment."

bh p. 214 par. 3 - "No, the judgment will not focus on what people did before they died. How do we know that? The Bible says: "The one who has died has been acquitted from his sin." (Romans 6:7) ...........Thus, individuals will be judged on the basis of what they do during Judgment Day."

Sincere thanks for correcting my fading vocabulary Freddo. I really need to keep pace with the chariot!

mrquik

It was their understanding that it would take all of the 1,000 year reign of Christ for mankind to reach perfection. In fact at the end of the 1,000 years when Satan was released, their would be a substantial number of wicked people joining him. All were then to be destroyed. So wicked people would still be around after Armageddon.

TheOldHippie

Far-fetched using John 5:29 in my eyes.

redvip2000

I can't believe the cart dubs didn't know this about the 1000 year reign. This was common belief with all the jdubs i knew. The idea was that as people were resurrected, some of them would still be evil, and that jeebooba would remove those people, not by death, but by making them disappear.

peely

slimboyfat, "I mostly pass JWs at carts by these days. I am at a loss to know what I can tell them that would do any good. JWs who are full in are apt to turn any sort of conversation you have with them into evidence that their religion is true."

I couldn't believe that in an area of a few square miles how many JWs with carts I passed, when touring a few months back. Because of so many, I began approaching one JW, touch his or her shoulder lightly, smile and say, "you may want to read Rev 18:4-8". And walk away. Leaving the last word with a scripture almost guarantees they will remember it...and read it.

Truly an awesome witness, Searcher. Although the Wt teaches that the symbolic "Thousand Years" is still to come, indeed Christ began ruling in judgment in the heavens upon taking his throne next to the Father.

slimboyfat

I can see the argument for planting seeds of doubt. Because although I don't think rational arguments often persuade JWs to leave the religion, little seeds of doubt can be stored at the back of the mind, ready to be deployed whenever a JW reconsiders his membership, usually initially for personal reasons. I think many former JWs have the experience of suppressing doubts and putting them aside, only to revisit them later when leaving the religion. So it's good to have these sorts of things in the mind for when they may be useful.

I always remember an apostate sign that simply read:

Matt 8:11 - proof the Watchtower is lying to you!

Saename

How are Rev. 18.4–8 and Matt. 8.11 seeds of doubt? I don't find anything so crucial about those verses...

slimboyfat

Well it seems to put the patriarchs in heaven, whereas JWs teach they are of the "earthly class".

Been witnessing today - first time in over 2 years!!

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