Resurrection, Reconstruction? What is it? It never made sense to me. Your opinion.

by Wasanelder Once 40 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  smiddy3

  When I was a witness i never gave it much thought about it and just accepted it in faith.Later however I had different views about it .The wages of sin is death and I understand that to be the Adamic death brought about by Adam and Eve`s disobeying god.There are a few times in the Bible where a resurrection has occurred ,and if that is the case they should be still walking around now. What other scriptural basis is their for humans to die ?

  Sin and imperfection is the result of Adam and Eve disobeying God ,and the wages of sin is death.

  Another thought is that modern science and technology in the medical field has enabled many people to be brought back to life after they have clinically died ,so they too should be still walking around among us but sadly many of them have also since died a second time.

  A second death ?

  And doesn`t that open up another can of worms ? for the WTB&TS ? to explain that ? With relatives of faithful Brothers and sisters who have gone through this ordeal ?
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  Finkelstein

  One way we can tell or verify the resurrection is fictional mythology is that Jesus said to the people at the time that many would not experiences death.

  ummmmm ??? It would appear that didn't happen
  
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  Half banana

  @ Sea Breeze, the death and resurrection of the saviour figure was in people's minds in the first and second centuries, there were indeed eyewitnesses to the account of a good man, a healer and teacher who had twelve disciples who himself could resurrect the dead. He was indeed tried at two courts, spiritual and secular, humiliated, crucified and put in a tomb. As the Bible says he did absolutely rise from the dead, he was after all seen by upward of five hundred witnesses . . . very convincing, very compelling.

  What a comfort for us all! The message is clear, the message is: we CAN overcome death!

  Yes I believe every word is true and people really did see these events not just one or two but many many people saw it -- but where did they see it? How did they learn these things? How did five hundred people see Jesus risen from the dead?

  The Bible accounts in the Gospels so compress all of the events taking place at the trial and death of Jesus as to lead textual scholars to realise that the Bible has included a transcription of a theatrical play. Habemas has only assembled 'facts' from these events within a play.

  There is no other external evidence whatsoever that these things literally took place. No Roman or modern historian, or archeologist or textual scholar has the evidence to prove that the gospel is other than a fiction. Reinforcing this, most of the gospel events individually are culled from earlier literature.
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  Diogenesister

  Finally, if Jesus was brought back to life, didn't that undo the sacrifice since nothing was really lost?

  I've always thought the real sacrifice is Judas. Someone had to betray Jesus. They had to. Otherwise no crucifixion. Judas will never be resurrected - unlike Jesus he'll be dead forever - and has the worst name to boot.

  So who made the real sacrifice now? Interestingly, Oscar Wilde wrote an essay about it.

  Yes unless you walk into paradise from Armageddon alive, without a soul you're just a copy.
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  Diogenesister

  Nitty Gritty Don't forget it was the Jews that wanted Jesus gone at all costs, regardless of any miracles or resurrections. After Jesus' death they would have strongly denied any powers that Jesus had, otherwise it would have made them look like slayers of God's son. And they did deny everything Jesus did, and deny it to this day. No one would have wanted it to be written into history, that the man they killed had performed miracles and brought people back from death

  Nitty Gritty You said it yourself....no one would want to be known as the people who slayed God son - the man that had raised the dead - no one in their right mind, that is.

  And we have no reason to believe ALL of these Jews were mad. So why did they allow his death? Because they DIDNT BELIEVE he was God son, obviously. They obviously thought him a charlatan. Why would you kill the only person in history to raise the dead? The answer is....YOU WOULDNT.

  Also, I have to say, the way you describe the spirit sounds exactly like a soul. Sorry but it does. Different word, same concept.
  
  
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  TD

  Don't forget it was the Jews that wanted Jesus gone at all costs, regardless of any miracles or resurrections. After Jesus' death they would have strongly denied any powers that Jesus had...
  ....It was the Christians that went out and told people what really happened. And the Romans who believed, became Christians.

  So out of curiosity, what ethnicity was Jesus again?

  What about the 12 Apostles?

  How about the 70 disciples sent forth in twos?

  With the possible exception of Luke how about the writers of the NT itself?
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  Sea Breeze

  Half Banana - There is no other external evidence whatsoever that these things literally took place. No Roman or modern historian, or archaeologist or textual scholar has the evidence to prove that the gospel is other than a fiction.

  The "Minimum Facts" are agreed to by nearly all critical and textual scholars, most of which are atheists, like Bart Ehrmann.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5znVUFHqO4Q&t=291s
  
  
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  Nitty-Gritty

  @diogenesister

  "Why would you kill the only person in history to raise the dead? The answer is....YOU WOULDNT."

  You might not, looking at it objectively. But they were blinded by hate. They actually did believe he performed miracles, but they attributed that to Satan. That's how much they hated him.
  
  
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  Nitty-Gritty

  @TD

  I wasn't talking exclusively about ethnicity, but more about religious conviction. Jewa became Christians too.
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  Half banana

  Sea Breeze as a committed Christian, part of your faith involves an unquestioning belief in Biblical miracles. I am not trying to be offensive but this would disqualify critical thought because belief in the supernatural is belief in the impossible, when the impossible is acceptable then anything goes.

  Your statement "nearly all critical and textual scholars" is not sound, (do not confuse "Bible scholars" with academic textual scholars) and even if you were accurate, it would not confirm the fiction of the last supper, trial and and death of the God man Jesus. There simply is no concrete evidence for this story, including the miraculous resurrection, outside of Christian propaganda. It is this propaganda and not historical fact which Habemas is quoting from.