by zeb 193 Replies latest social current
Not all "Grenfell tower victims" are victims of anything. There are a lot of these:
As for the genuine victims likely to be immigrants and the housing not being used appropriately, that seems to be factually correct:
Some people seem to be back at the stage of facts or the people that report than as being racist. That seems silly and wrong.
When did this Board turn into an anti-Muslim and Tommy Robinson apologist support group?
He is a self-promoting criminal thug and football hooligan who has been in the leadership of several anti-immigrant organisations that attract large numbers of out-and-out racists.
Last year he was given a suspended sentence for endangering a fair trial. This year he did the same thing again, and is serving 13 months (original sentence plus sentence for reoffending).
He’s gotten exactly what he deserved.
if anyone takes the time to research the cases in addition to the fact some pretty marginal Muslims (i.e. they weren’t pillars of the Muslim community) didn’t get reported by their own community, the girls were failed by the parents, the police and social workers.
We can all get rightfully angry about sexual predators but the majority of the news coverage has failed to highlight the fact these girls were treated appallingly by those meant to protect them.
When the big bush fires hit Victoria there were people( ! ) lining up in the hubbub complete with kids for relief being cash, food, blankets and other emergency supplies and then driving back to Melbourne where they had come from. This deft bit of con-work ceased when some were recognised and were sent packing..
'Those meant to protect".. indeed. In my home state a scandal broke where 'welfare' had to be cauterised for its dereliction which set kids in need on the path of drugs, pregnancies and education abandoned. Not all the kids were from dysfunctional families either. It took parents blowing the story to the papers, and people demanding answers.
Out of it the 'welfare' staff were not sacked or prosecuted but went to other govt departments as the system protected its own.
Abaddon—if anyone takes the time to research the cases in addition to the fact some pretty marginal Muslims (i.e. they weren’t pillars of the Muslim community) didn’t get reported by their own community, the girls were failed by the parents, the police and social workers.
We can all get rightfully angry about sexual predators but the majority of the news coverage has failed to highlight the fact these girls were treated appallingly by those meant to protect them.
There has been some digging on the subject. In May there was a thread titled UK Justice .I think you will find the conversation there examined matters you think have been overlooked.
The subset of Muslims involved in the rape gangs were Pakistanis in the Rotherham instance. This report was investigated by Andrew Norfolk over a three year time span. His report was damning of the authorities. The case had gone on for 15 years without getting attention . The girls were mainly from poor and troubled homes.
There are various views on the board on this matter. The video posted is a short interview with Mr. Norfolk. You might check it out . There was a lengthier one posted on the thread mentioned earlier in which he gives a 15 minute presentation on the complex matter that required so much digging to adequately investigate.
I hope you will review that thread, Abaddon. There are a lot of moving parts to this story of Tommy Robinson, radical/misogynistic Islam and the culpability of the authorities . Edit: Norfolk represents, l believe , the finest mind of all in examining the Rape Gangs of the Northern parts of Britain. Trevor Philips is next to him in assessing and proposing solutions to the problems of assimilation of immigrants.
Be specific in directing your complaints please. This board is not a monoculture.
When did
this Board turn into an anti-Muslim and Tommy Robinson apologist support group?
It is a forum of religious cult survivors, there are many here who are good researches and deep thinker, this is self-evident. Many have spent their entire lives focused on religion – all be it a blinkered view. Islam is the mother of all religious cults, a death cult, the cult of mohammed and like it or not it has a target on your back just as it has on mine, it’s part of islams primary directive (Islam must dominate) that is pursued by orthodox Muslims This is an ideal place for such discussion. I understand if you feel a bit bewildered by discussion of such a foreign ideology as the WT has been little help – they have not published an honest article on the topic since 1951
He is a self-promoting criminal thug and football hooligan who has been in the leadership of several anti-immigrant organisations that attract large numbers of out-and-out racists.
He left the EDL because it was being hijacked by Nazi types. This has happened to similar groups in my country also and it would appear that it is an infiltration by government agencies to discredit and dis empower the group.
In addition, if advanced Western society is to survive, prosper, and not be plummeted deep back into the dark ages, it will be because of people like Tommy who have the intestinal fortitude to stand up and call it out as it is, irrespective of the personal cost. If we should survive, there will be a statue of him some day, alongside Charles Martel.
Last year he was given a suspended sentence for endangering a fair trial. This year he did the same thing again, and is serving 13 months (original sentence plus sentence for reoffending).
He’s gotten exactly what he deserved.
You have not heard half of what he has had to endure, I recommend you read his book – https://www.amazon.com/Tommy-Robinson-Enemy-State/dp/0957096496
if anyone takes the time to research the cases in addition to the fact some pretty marginal Muslims (i.e. they weren’t pillars of the Muslim community) didn’t get reported by their own community, the girls were failed by the parents, the police and social workers.
We can all get rightfully angry about sexual predators but the majority of the news coverage has failed to highlight the fact these girls were treated appallingly by those meant to protect them.
The good muslims don’t report the evil, they say nothing because they know under the laws of islam it is OK to treat unbelievers this way and to speak up would mark them as an apostate.
How did we come to know about this scandal, the rapes and terrible exploitation of thousands of young girls and the multi agency multi decade cover up??
We know about this now because Tommy and a few others put it all on the line and spoke up, he spoke up for his children and ours and for this, he is a political prisoner.
humbled:
I remember having discussions here with Holocaust deniers, 'Truthers', AGW deniers, Creationists, hell, even a guy who claimed he saw a sasquatch. I am used to all sorts of idiocy, dehumanising ideologies and science denial.
I am well aware this board is not a monoculture, but the number of people falling for someone so patently pushing a divisive and ignorant distortion in my home country brings it close to home and is somewhat shocking.
That video you posted. The title is 'Tommy Robinson Andrew Norfolk finally admits it's a muslim problem’
This is firstly a blatant insertion of Tommy Robinson (aka Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon, aka Andrew McMaster aka Paul Harris) into the discussion. He's had nothing to do with the investigation. He's just inserting himself to get publicity for himself.Secondly, Andrew Norfolk does not ‘finally admits it's a muslim problem’. He says it is…
“… particular issue with small sub-section of men within the South Asian Community, predominantly Pakistani Muslim heritage”.
So, secondly misrepresentation. Did you not pick up on that? My goodness, sounds like Andrew is saying it is a cultural issue there. Which it is, as culture expresses religion rather than religion expressing culture - which is why people like ‘Tommy’ are dangerous, as they make it all about religion.
I totally agree with you that the case had gone on for years without attention, and think it is an example of poor parenting and sexist and classist attitudes in social services and the police amounting to a systemic failure to protect at risk children. The fear some in the local council, the social services and the police had of being thought racist did not help, but it was not the primary cause of lack of action.
Because you know that police and social services would reacted differently no matter what ethnicity the criminals had if the children had reasonably-off middle class parents who became mad with worry if their children were half-an-hour late coming home from a piano lesson and rang the police.
Those children suffered because of evil predatory men, shitty parents, and a system which classified working class delinquent children as not being worth protecting. That is why it went on for years.
Oh, and just as perspective. Muslims are under-represented compared to their percentage of the population if you look at the numbers in jail for sex offences, and if you look at sex-grooming gangs, the ones characterised by South Asian ethnicity typically are not primarily motivated by the age of their victims, but rather their exploitability. Sex-grooming gangs characterised by white ethnicity are typically motivated by their victims age.
resolute Bandicoot
I’m not bewildered, far from it. I deprogrammed and left the Borg almost 25 years ago, before the Internet greatly facilitated discovery of the truth about the ‘Truth’, and have studied comparative religion as well as living, working and studying with Muslims my entire life. Don’t assume I don’t know what I am talking about, it won’t go well for you.
EDL grew from the ashes of the BNP as that grew from the ashes of the NF. With each rebirth the shit-phoenix of xenophobia rubs off the rough edges and refines its message. As the out-and-out racism of the NF became socially unacceptable, it effectively rebranded as the BNP, but large numbers of supporters simply shifted allegiance to the new party without undergoing a Damascene moment regarding racial equality or multiculturalism. However, the remarketing led to capturing those dissatisfied with Conservative Party policies who would never have joined the NF. Likewise, the EDL performed the same trick. Slightly more refined xenophobia, same transfer of supporters from an older incarnation, same capture of those dissatisfied with Conservative Party policies who would never have joined the BNP. And after leaving the EDL, what does Tommy do? Get involved with Pegida, another xenophobia organisation. LOL.
You might be fooled by a xenophobe changing his affiliations but I am not.
I now have to quote what you say before each response to illustrate that when I describe you as a hysterical, hyperbolic xenophobe I am using descriptive languge not insults:
<<In addition, if advanced Western society is to survive, prosper, and not be plummeted deep back into the dark ages, it will be because of people like Tommy who have the intestinal fortitude to stand up and call it out as it is, irrespective of the personal cost. If we should survive, there will be a statue of him some day, alongside Charles Martel.>>
OK, let’s break this down; ‘advanced Western society’. This ignores the battles for racial and sexual equality that are still to be won de facto even if in many places the battle has been won de jure (although this is at risk in some places). Doesn’t sound too advanced. This same ‘advanced Western society’ has had two world wars in the past hundred years, and has invaded and destabilised countries for resources and strategic advantage in living memory. Doesn’t sound too advanced either. Te reason that woman and POC have the same rights in ‘advanced Western society’ is not because white men gave the those rights, but because women and POC fought for those rights. Doesn’t sound too advanced. Half of all women murdered in the UK are murdered by current or former male sexual partners (compared to a fraction of that for the reverse). Doesn’t sound too advanced. Women are blamed for men raping them. Doesn’t sound too advanced. Oooo, do you mean mobile phones and TVs? LOL. Our culture advancement has more to do with the Industrial Revolution necessitating the education of women to work, women becoming more economically active, and two hundred years of secularism ameliorating the ignorance of out cultural religion. Most Muslim cultures have not had that so are obviously not as advanced yet. It's only time, not intrinsic values.
And ‘to survive, prosper, and not be plummeted deep back into the dark ages’. Really? In the EU the percentage of Muslims based on current birth rates, total intergenerational religious fidelity, and high migration it is calculated the Muslim population would be about 18% in some countries, lower in most.
Of course, the fact is despite what some people will try to say, Muslims are just like us. Other immigrant populations have had their birth rates drop as in Europe it’s no longer necessary to have lots of children and nicer to have fewer children and more comfortable lives; Muslims will be no different. The EU has in the space of a few generations become dramatically secularised with most people only having nominal religious adherence; Muslims will be no different.
If you look at likely rates of birth rate fall alone, and still assume total intergenerational religious fidelity, it is hard to come up with a population simulation where the Muslim population in the EU goes above a third or so. But as there will not be total intergenerational religious fidelity, it will be less than that.
The rest of your comment is pseudo-Christian European nationalism. I mean, “intestinal fortitude”, “there will be a statue of him some day, alongside Charles Martel”, get a grip. You are scared of people from other cultures. I understand that. It’s kind of pathetic. But your claims are unfounded.
<<You have not heard half of what he has had to endure, I recommend you read his book>>
I don’t need to read that or Mein Kampf either, thank you. Self-aggrandization by narcissistic xenophobes cynically exploiting the fear of those scared of change who want to have someone to blame for the problems in their life does nothing for me. Why do you find such rubbish worthy of attention?
<<How did we come to know about this scandal, the rapes and terrible exploitation of thousands of young girls and the multi agency multi decade cover up??
We know about this now because Tommy and a few others put it all on the line and spoke up, he spoke up for his children and ours and for this, he is a political prisoner.>>
Tommy had NOTHING to do with the investigation. Nothing. Please don’t lie. He didn't put anything on the line. He's a convicted fraudster and football hooligan. This xenophobia IS his line.
Abaddon— you certainly are touching on areas of discussion that were covered in past threads: white men WERE exploiting girls more frequently. Yet it also was true that the culturally more misogynistic Pakistani men were the perpetrators of the crimes against white and also Hindu girls in the northern city rape gangs.
The past conversations explored the disturbance of moderate Muslims that there was not a more vigorous application of law to help clear out radical imams, the desire to avoid the negative impact of sharia law . .
I did not title these videos of Andrew Norfolk. And the one I linked to above l found because it is very relevant to the discussion of careful distinctions between unhealthy effects of a subset of the Muslim communities.
The fear of acknowledging characteristics a certain religion has toward specific human rights abuses has happened in other cases:
So now Islam has come to Western lands. The numbers of adherents is enough to haves cultural impact.
There are wasabis and salifist imams among Islamic teachers. The government has to deal rationally with their destructive teachings. Many Muslims dread their being in their mosques.
Tommy Robinson has become a flashpoint in Britain because the law makers and enforcers , social services, the media reporting were fearful of seeming inhospitable or even prejudiced against immigrants to note the systems and customs within some Muslim practice that are destructive of the grain of western law.. l might say that it is one thing to go against the grain but another thing entirely to break it. Tommy Robinson from the lower section of society felt and saw the gross failures of assimilation and crudely brought attention to it. His work has probably helped . It certainly has galvanized i investigation on this forum. I believe Tommy should step aside and others with as much conviction and better tactics should do the work. ( and there are people who are trying,)
you should consider the long .. very long discussion on this topic in former threads. I myself may sound cranky at having to repeat what took time and effort to post in those places because l can see that your thrust of concern goes over that ground.
Edit: I personally have a great aversion to the imperialist violence of the Great Western Democracies. I run afoul of posters who have another perspective on that. I despise the racist activism that has grown behind Tommy Robinson . All the world needs better understanding and action to manage our shifting struggling poor.
People like Abaddon are the reason cases like Rotheram and so many others happen and will continue to happen. They get covered up and people are afraid to act because they know they will be targeted by some for acting or even voicing concern. "You're RACIST!!!"
Think about that. People are more obsessed and concerned about Islam getting a bad name than there being justice for the victims or even preventing more kids being victimized.
There are people like Tommy Robinson who are brave enough to stand up and point to what's going on, who stick their neck out and take the risk. Yeah, he's not perfect. He's a working class guy, probably not super educated but if you bother to listen to him being interviewed he's a decent bloke trying to do the right thing and draw attention to crimes that need to be stopped and that continue unless someone is pointing to them and shouting. We know that to be true because even after the publicity of Rotheram, there were other towns where it was happening and being covered up. Same culture involved, every time.
Take your "Muslim pedophile rape gang apologism" and fuck off elsewhere because I'm sick of idiots like you obsessing about "OMG, some white guy said a Muslim was bad!!!" and who is pointing to the issue than the crimes and the people who commit them.
And it's a fact that Muslim men from Pakistan are vastly over-represented when it comes to these crimes because their culture is a shithole and they are shits and they should not be tolerated.
<<you certainly are touching on areas of discussion that were covered in past threads: white men WERE exploiting girls more frequently. Yet it also was true that the culturally more misogynistic Pakistani men were the perpetrators of the crimes against white and also Hindu girls in the northern city rape gangs.>>
No disagreement with that as it's a matter of record in both cases.
<<I believe Tommy should step aside and others with as much conviction and better tactics should do the work. ( and there are people who are trying,)
No, his goal is xenophobic. Those are his convictions. Other than his criminal record that is... LOL
And he's not going to step aside. He's a monomaniac. It's his 'job'. I know you didn't title those videos, it was not my point, my point was what I said it was. Misattribution and misrepresentation. Are those videos monetised I wonder?
