Has the Watchtower Faithful Slave become the Evil Slave?

by Vanderhoven7 31 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Vidqun
    Vidqun

    They are condemned by their own interpretation of Scripture. One is often identified by the company you keep. To me this sequence of Scriptures stand out. Babylon the Great rides the beast. Did they not also ride the beast with Babylon the Great, even just for a few years? Yes, you are identified by the company you keep!

    48 But if ever that evil slave should say in his heart, My master is delaying, 49 and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards (Matt. 24:48-49)
    3 And he carried me away in [the power of the] spirit into a wilderness. And I caught sight of a woman sitting upon a scarlet-colored wild beast that was full of blasphemous names and that had seven heads and ten horns. 4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and was adorned with gold and precious stone and pearls and had in her hand a golden cup that was full of disgusting things and the unclean things of her fornication. (Rev. 17:3, 4)
    3 For because of the wine of the anger of her fornication all the nations have fallen [victim], and the kings of the earth committed fornication with her, and the traveling merchants of the earth became rich due to the power of her shameless luxury. (Rev. 18:3 NWT) [Cursive script added.]
  • PetrW
    PetrW

    @Big Dog

    That's an interesting question: why are there terms like "slave" but also "king"?

    A common answer is that the NT just reflects the socio-economic conditions of the time. But this is seen by many as an insufficient answer. What is missing is any significant criticism, for example of slavery in particular. Paul's letter to Philomena does deal with the realities of "slavery", but its solution is not to criticize slavery as an institution, but to overcome the conflict that arises from this phenomenon by Christianity overcoming the conflicts of people that arise from human social roles/states as slave or master, male or female.

    This is indeed a highly effective solution, but only within Christianity and only if people accept it: Paul could only appeal to Philomena. To finish: From the legal practice preserved for us in Egyptian papyri of the Roman era, it can be traced that the master, often entrusted a slave with some business dealings. Commercial contracts were standardized and contained clauses stating what damages could be claimed if the terms of the contract were not fulfilled. Typically the sale of, for example, a donkey. The donkey was described, and a sale price was set. The buyer undertook to inspect the donkey and not to claim damages if the donkey died or ran away on the way home after the sale. If in such a case the buyer demanded something back, the seller was entitled to a full refund and the buyer was to hand over the same amount to the municipal treasury as a fine...

    In the hypothetical case where Filomenus had entrusted his slave Onesimus with some business and Onesimus had run away, Onesimus might have put his master in a very precarious situation: Filomenus might have been forced to return some money and might have been fined for the thwarted business, he might have been subjected to execution on the property, or he and his whole family might have been thrown into prison until he, or some guarantor, could buy him out of prison. All these things were possible...

    Thus, a master could easily become a "slave" just because a slave failed to perform a task.

    Paul's appeal to Philomena to forgive Onesimus because he had become a Christian could have been a great challenge to Philomena's character: a runaway slave could have been quite deservedly punished, and very brutally, because the slave's actions could have put the master or even his family in vital danger...

    Again: while this explains the Christian attitude towards slavery, it in no way says that slavery is to end.

    Why is there no criticism of this or any other contemporary institution?

    I answer this again with an example from the Egyptian papyri of the Roman period. There are several papyri where it is written that XY found an infant, a girl or a boy, in a dunghill (really literally: dunghill, garbage dump), and gives this infant to a nursing mother QW, for a fee, for 2 years, to nurse this "little body" (the texts use the term "little body", they don't talk about the child at all), and then return it to XY. The milkmaid undertook to do this and that.

    The papyri survive regarding disputes when the "foundling" died and the grantor, oak claimed the nursemaid's child, thinking this was the foundling...

    There is no mention in the NT-text of the practice of abandoned children (if no one found them, they died - cf Egypt and the birth of Moses) or someone found them and gave them up for rearing and then made slaves of them. It may not have been the practice in 1st century Palestine, but since Christianity spread very soon, then they must have been confronted with the issue. What about the children left on the dung heap? How many to save? Shouldn't that be outlawed?

    So there were more of these burning questions and some were not even mentioned.

    The only answer I have so far is that Christianity at the time was, shall we say, a sect of a few thousand people who did not seek any "political" influence to change any social phenomenon. Question: How do you as a church feel about abortion or homosexuality or LGBT? assumes that the church has some social influence. That it has enough power to change something or at least to influence public opinion in (dis)favor of something.

    This power influence, this ambition, is - in my opinion - completely alien to early Christians. They changed themselves and, at most, their family members. They were not indifferent to other people's suffering (see Samaritan), but this only confirms the above point that love or mercy ("the poor you will always have around you") was connected to their person and situation. Now and therefore. I'm not fighting against slavery being eventually replaced by feudalism or capitalism or a communist gulag.

    The system was overcome (say: eliminated) by love and mercy primarily within the Christian group, not by cutting something off the attacker with a sword (already a severed ear was a problem...).

  • BoogerMan
    BoogerMan

    @ BIGDOG: In the Greek, the word for "slave" can also be translated as "a servant" or "attendant." "https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g1401/kjv/tr/0-1/

    The org of course much prefers "slave" when applying it to themselves.

    R & F JW's are the real slaves!

  • PetrW
    PetrW

    If I comment on Matthew 24:45ff, I think that the German attempt at a modern but humorous interpretation of the Bible (volxbibel.de) puts it this way:

    *

    What's a good department manager like?" Jesus asked his people. "His boss has given him the task of keeping his employees properly occupied and making sure that they have everything they need. 46 He can be totally happy if the boss comes by and checks the department and everything is OK. 47 One thing is quite clear: he would entrust the rest of the company to such a reliable head of department. 48 But if the head of department messes up and thinks to himself: 'It doesn't matter anyway, as long as the old man isn't there', 49 and then starts bullying his employees and partying all over the company every night, 50 yes, if the boss suddenly comes back, then panic is the order of the day! 51 He won't just sack him, he'll also hang a complaint on his neck and throw him out on the street in a big arc. The guy will be totally miserable, he'll start crying and get depressed, but he doesn't deserve it any other way."

    *

    But I think that when Jesus used the word "slave", he meant to emphasize a position of man that precluded independent, free action (which is criticized as "feasting and drinking with drunkards"), i.e. slavery. Not a servant (in the sense of a municipal official, since the exercise of public administration has also been largely privatized - see Matthew, as a publican or one who has paid to perform public service). The slave, as a lawless person who derived his existence principally from the master, was to follow strictly the master's instructions. One historian has put the position of the slave very well in relation to modern times: the slave was the best robot (which is why the ancient Mediterranean somehow did not rush to a technical revolution a la the 19th century).

    In modern times, the status of the slave - in my opinion - would correspond perhaps to some lower military rank and relationship to a superior: "When a lieutenant appoints a sergeant over the men...such sergeant will be mentioned in the daily report...".

  • Duran
    Duran
    Babylon the Great rides the beast. Did they not also ride the beast with Babylon the Great, even just for a few years?

    When you say 'they' (WTS) also did so with BTG, are you saying that WTS is not part of BTG?

    Who is BTG?

    Who is the beast that they rode for a few years?

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Aprox 10 years as an NGO of the United Nations ending on 2000.

  • Vidqun
    Vidqun

    Watchtower interpretation (not sure whether this is till the case): Beast = United Nations. Babylon the Great = World Empire of False Religion. They joined the UN as NGO and became part of the beast, partying alongside Babylon the Great. So they are condemned by their own interpretation.

  • Duran
    Duran

    The beast has 7 heads, meaning 7 kings. We are supposedly living during the 7th head/king (Which is not the UN). The beast as a whole after the death-stroke on the 7th head will then be the 8th king when the death-stroke gets revived. It is claimed the UN will be that 8th king and that is the point that it will be giving 42-month authority. That has not happened yet therefore the WTS as an NGO to the UN during that time does not matter. They were not riding the beast because the UN is not the beast until it becomes the 8th king.

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Wasn't the Beast slain when the League of Nations was scrubbed but rose again as the United Nations?

  • Vidqun
    Vidqun

    Duran, there's three beasts mentioned by John in the book of Revelation: 1) Beast from the sea = Beast with slain head that healed (Rev. 13:1, 3). This beast is a conglomeration of Daniel's four beasts. 2) Beast from the earth = false prophet (13:11, 12). 3) Beast from the abyss = scarlet-colored wild beast (17:3, 8; cf. 11:7). The first beast was either absorbed by the other beasts or it disappeared from the scene because Jesus only deals with the scarlet-colored wild beast and false prophet during Armageddon (cf. 19:20; 20:10).

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit