by ColdRedRain 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
As I mentioned in another forum, I'm going to an aunt's wedding and I know my family's going to try to debate with me. I thought a good way to win some debates was to debunk the 1914 teaching.
I have very little time these days because I work frequently and I can't get to the library to use the internet. Can you give me 10 quick arguments that I could print out and memorize?
Secular historians agree that Jerusalem was conquered by Bablyon in 586/587 BCE not 607! Only WTBT claims 607, it fits their escatology.
The 1922 convention where Rutherford said "Advertise, advertise, advertise", he was speaking of Christ's coming in 1874 that needed to be advertised. The WTBT did accetp 1914 until Freddy did some more research, because the end hadn't come yet.
The GB was given research done by Carl Olof Jonnson on the date 586/7 BCE and they refused to read it. They are not truth seekers, just in business for themselves.
have fun at the wedding. :o)
j2bf
How about these:
Not one thing Russell predicted happened -- Armageddon, overthrow of all governments, etc.
Russell and company did not go to heaven in 1914.
1914 was based on chronology such as led to the now-abandoned date 1874 for Christ's return.
Wars since 1914 have killed roughly the same percentage of population as during the previous four centuries.
Famine and pestilence have killed far fewer people as a percentage of population.
Earthquakes kill 3-4 times fewer as a percentage of population than they did 300 years ago.
The world has experienced a population explosion in the 20th century -- the opposite of what would be if the "composite sign" events were killing people on the scale that Watchtower claims.
The same organization that claimed 1914 would bring "the end" also claimed that "the resurrection of the saints" occurred in 1881.
The entire 1914 chronology is refuted by 2 Chronicles 36:20 and Jeremiah 25:11, 12, which disproves 607 as the starting date for the cherished "gentile times" notion.
Here's a long but very good quotation, from Carl Sagan writing in Broca's Brain, pages 332-333 (Ballantine Books, New York, 1982):
Doctrines that make no predictions are less compelling than those which make correct predictions; they are in turn more successful than doctrines that make false predictions.
But not always. One prominent American religion confidently predicted that the world would end in 1914. Well, 1914 has come and gone, and -- while the events of that year were certainly of some importance -- the world does not, at least so far as I can see, seem to have ended. There are at least three responses that an organized religion can make in the face of such a failed and fundamental prophecy. They could have said, "Oh, did we say `1914'? So sorry, we meant `2014.' A slight error in calculation. Hope you weren't inconvenienced in any way." But they did not. They could have said, "Well, the world would have ended, except we prayed very hard and interceded with God so He spared the Earth." But they did not. Instead, they did something much more ingenious. They announced that the world had in fact ended in 1914, and if the rest of us hadn't noticed, that was our lookout. It is astonishing in the face of such transparent evasions that this religion has any adherents at all. But religions are tough. Either they make no contentions which are subject to disproof or they quickly redesign doctrine after disproof. The fact that religions can be so shamelessly dishonest, so contemptuous of the intelligence of their adherents, and still flourish does not speak very well for the tough-mindedness of the believers. But it does indicate, if a demonstration were needed, that near the core of the religious experience is something remarkably resistant to rational inquiry.AlanF
MATT 24 makes it clear that no one will have to let us know when Jesus comes back. "For just as lighting comes from the east and is seen as far as the west, wo will the coming of the Son of Man be. (Matt 24:27). Yet, no one, not even the Witnesses, were saying Jesus had returned back in 1914.
If you must, tell em Jesus never left the earth spiritualy so he didnt have to come back spiritualy in 1914.
"Where ever 2 or 3 are ...I am there also" He was spiritualy there after he left physically.
"Lo I am with you until the end of the age" Matt 28...spiritualy there all the time.
So he never left spiritualy, so 1914 "spiritual return" is schtupid. Where did he return from? He never left.
Alan F, I have always liked that Sagan quote. A keeper. Thanks.
Poignant language in that C.S. quote - " contemptuous to intelligence"
I wonder - is jwism a form of an adult tantrum ?
Anyway, what about "those living in 1914 won't have passed away" - regardless of how they evade this point, it was a fundamental teaching of theirs for many, many years.
Bottom line is (even for the most unread and biblically unaware), that lying does not seem to be much of a concern to them - not like it is for those wicked worldly people anyway.
paduan
: I have very little time these days because I work frequently and I can't get to the library to use the internet. Can you give me 10 quick arguments that I could print out and memorize?
Sure, I can. But I won't. Quit being a lazy ass and do your own hard work. You must be a dumb-lazy-assed-dub who thinks people should deliver you information on a platter and at your demand. Forget it. You have 24 hours in your day just as we do. If you consider that information important enough to find it, then you will find it. It's easily available and it's easily available with little effort.
If you are too lazy to find it yourself, then you are just lazy. I'm not very fond of lazy. Sorry.
Fogetaboutit. I ain't gonna help you.
Farkel
What's that saying: If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. It seems obvious to me that if you don't want to help then don't post.
ColdRedRain-
I hope that you don't let the above poster keep you from asking questions. I personally have only been out of the org 2 years and that hasn't been enough time for me to thoroughly research every topic that interests me. There are several people who have been out many many years that would gladly help you.
Another valuable resource is the search feature. Type in '1914' and I'm sure you'll get lots of help.
Farkel
Stop being a complete jerk and going out of your way to insult people for no good reason. If you don't want to help, why not just keep your mouth shut?
This is a final warning: I am completely sick of your insults and put-downs to anyone and everyone. Either it stops or you do, it's up to you.
