I need 10 quick anti 1914 arguments to print out.

by ColdRedRain 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  ColdRedRain

  >Sure, I can. But I won't. Quit being a lazy ass and do your own hard work. You must be a dumb-lazy-assed-dub who thinks people should deliver you information on a platter and at your demand. Forget it. You have 24 hours in your day just as we do. Farkel, with all due respect, unlike you, I do not have an ISP availible at my house at anytime. I have to go to the library to use the internet because I made a brave choice to not be a witness anymore at a relatively young age (21). My father (Who puts up tantrums just like yours.) cut off the internet because I went to this very site, and now I'm working to pay for my own computer and ISP, which I will have in 2 weeks. >If you consider that information important enough to find it, then you will find it. It's easily available and it's easily available with little effort. Again, refer to the above quote. Try being young and XJW and you won't be so judgemental. (I thought only JW's had that quality?)

  >If you are too lazy to find it yourself, then you are just lazy. I'm not very fond of lazy. Sorry.

  >Fogetaboutit. I ain't gonna help you. Did I even ask for your help specifically? Did the thread say "Farkel, I need your help?". No. Now fuck off and die.
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  rocketman

  wow.
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  Cassandra Cain

  Hey Welcome to the forum......Looks like you will fit in just fine

  ~Harley~
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  nicolaou

  The entire 1914 chronology is refuted by 2 Chronicles 36:20 and Jeremiah 25:11, 12, which disproves 607 as the starting date for the cherished "gentile times" notion.

  How Alan? I guess it's because the 70 years applies to all the nations that went in to servitude to Babylon, not just Israel but I'd appreciate you expanding on this a bit.

  Thanks,

  Nic'

  2 Chronicles 36:20
  Those who had escaped from the sword he carried away to Babylon; and they were servants to him and to his sons until the rule of the kingdom of Persia,

  Jeremiah 25:11,12
  And this whole land shall become a waste, an astonishment; and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years. And it shall come to pass, when seventy years are accomplished, [that] I will visit on the king of Babylon and on that nation, saith Jehovah, their iniquity, and on the land of the Chaldeans, and I will make it perpetual desolations.
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  hawkaw

  Simon,

  As much as Doug's post is very harsh, Doug makes an excellent point.

  It is one of the rules that Randy, Alan and the many others on this board have taught me over the years when I became involved in my little pushing here and little pushing there.

  You have to know your stuff with these JWs. These JW people get this stuff roted into their heads almost daily and thus, its tough to get those fog coloured glasses.

  As much as Alan F.'s post and others are outstanding and are excellent tips, this person needs to really study hard about the subject and learn the techniques of how to make a JW absorb what is being said so they don't put up the brick wall.

  hawk
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  WildHorses

  Hawkaw, and Farkel, I am glad that no one felt that way when I first came online or I would probably still be a dub. I knew nothing about the internet when I found that chat room and didn't know how to use keywords to search for what I wanted to find.

  Besides, CRR had already posted why it was not easy for him to find the info.

  Farkel, with all due respect, unlike you, I do not have an ISP availible at my house at anytime. I have to go to the library to use the internet because I made a brave choice to not be a witness anymore at a relatively young age (21). My father (Who puts up tantrums just like yours.) cut off the internet because I went to this very site, and now I'm working to pay for my own computer and ISP, which I will have in 2 weeks.

  Can't we all have a little more heart?
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  City Fan

  Nicolau,

  I think what Alan is saying is that 2 Chronicles 36:20 and Jeremiah 25:11-12 pinpoint the end of the 70 years as 539 BC when the Persian army entered Babylon without a battle. It was a very sudden change in power with Belshazzar killed with the capture of the city and Nabonidus surrendering soon after.

  This would give 609 BC as the start of the seventy years.

  The major events around this time were the destruction of Ninevah by the Babylonians and Medes in 612 BC, the defeat of Harran (Assyria's last stronghold) in 609 BC, and the Babylonian defeat of Egypt at the Battle of Carchemish in 605 BC. Take your pick!

  It was only victory at the Battle of Carchemish that enabled Nebuchadrezzar "to impose his hold swiftly over the former Assyrian provinces and vassal territories in the west" - The Cambridge Ancient History D.J.Wiseman.

  The website http://www.hostkingdom.net/regindex.html gives lists of all the kingdoms in the area around this period. It shows the dates for transfer of power from Assyria to Babylon for each kingdom with 609 BC being the most common. This would tie in with Jeremiah 25 which says "and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years".

  Hope this helps.
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  AlanF

  Hi Nicolau, :: The entire 1914 chronology is refuted by 2 Chronicles 36:20 and Jeremiah 25:11, 12, which disproves 607 as the starting date for the cherished "gentile times" notion.

  : How Alan? I guess it's because the 70 years applies to all the nations that went in to servitude to Babylon, not just Israel but I'd appreciate you expanding on this a bit.

  That's only part of it. The main point is given by 2 Chronicles:

  2 Chronicles 36:20
  Those who had escaped from the sword he carried away to Babylon; and they were servants to him and to his sons until the rule of the kingdom of Persia,

  So according to this passage, the Jews who were taken to Babylon were captive only until the Persians began to rule. That, of course, was in 539 B.C., when the Persians under Cyrus conquered Babylon. Now look at Jeremiah:

  Jeremiah 25:11,12
  And this whole land shall become a waste, an astonishment; and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years. And it shall come to pass, when seventy years are accomplished, [that] I will visit on the king of Babylon and on that nation, saith Jehovah, their iniquity, and on the land of the Chaldeans, and I will make it perpetual desolations.

  According to this passage, the servitude of the Jews to the king of Babylon would last 70 years. Combining both passages, it is beyond dispute that the 70 years mentioned by Jeremiah ended in 539 B.C. This conflicts with the Watchtower's claim that the 70 years were years of captivity at Babylon and ended in 537 B.C. Since the Bible itself states that the 70 years of servitude ended with the overthrow of Babylon, and not with the return of the Jews to Jerusalem (as the Watchtower claims), and Babylon's overthrow occurred two years before the Jews' return, the Watchtower's claims and dates are wrong. The Watchtower claims that the 70 years ended in 537, and so must have begun in 607 B.C. which they claim was when Jerusalem was overthrown and the 2,520 years of the "gentile times" began. But because their starting date is wrong, and their interpretation of the entire set of passages having to do with the Jews' servitude to Babylon is wrong, the entire claim that the "gentile times" lasted from 607 B.C. to 1914 A.D. is wrong. Since that is a fundamental doctrine of the Watchtower, its disproof also disproves the claim of Watchtower leaders to have been appointed "over all Christ's belongings" in 1919, since this claim is entirely based on a demonstrably false chronology that allows these men to make claims about invisible events that only they can discern. Thus these men are false teachers and, by their own definition, false prophets. AlanF
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  Buster

  From the "Probably chiming too late" department:

  If I were sitting in front of a dubbie apologist, I would make them prove it to me. Should be easy enough for them, it being the truth and all. But you need to stand firm in your faith in yourself. You see, if its the truth, if they are earnestly trying to explain, and if you are earnestly trying to undertand, then it will happen.

  You'll need to challenge their assumptions thru the whole thing. Look for the logical (illogical) leaps they make. Make them justify every step.

  • What makes them think that the Gentile times is a fixed period, with a set beginning and end?
  • What makes them think that the Times starts at the same time as the fall of Jerusalem?
  • how do they justify the 360-days-in-a-year, then year-for-a-day?

  Don't let them pull out a scripture snippet here and say it ties to another snippet over there. Make them justify connecting them. Make them review the scriptural context of every snippet they cite. Have an online Bible commentary available and use it every time they try to baffle you with the BS stream of snippets.

  Keep in mind that they are postulating that Jesus has been ruling for almost 100 years - and you haven't seen hyde nor hair of him.

  Stay skeptical and you'll see that they have no valid answers here.
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  ColdRedRain

  Sorry for that above outburst, now back to the true mission of this thread, getting me 10 quick answers to print out.

  Another point that is always forgotten is that how the Jehovah's Witnesses weren't even an official religion in 1914. How could they be the only true witnesses of 1914 when they didn't even exist as a religion at that time?