An epiphany, and prelude to other thoughts

by onacruse 79 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Ravyn

  One of the proudest moments of my life was the last christmas I was still a JW. Grampa was suffering with leukemia and diabetes and did not have much longer. He had managed to hang on 5 years after nanna died of cancer and his life was very sad. Nanna and Grampa were not and never had been JWs, had in fact even 'disowned' their son and his family who had converted to JWism(for a few years). They were very traditional Catholics. But they were also the center of the family and in my years of being adopted into that family I saw Nanna and Grampa influence even their elder son into doing some things for the sake of family that no one was to ever talk about in 'mixed(JW) company'. I loved Nanna and Grampa and they loved me. She made sure to give me a piece of jewelry before she died so I would not get 'lost in the chaos' after she was gone. Along with her grand-daughter who was my room-mate and pioneer partner of many years, we nursed her until the day she died. Well now it was grampa's turn. Everyone had plans over the holiday. Mostly ski trips and such that JWs do on Christmas holidays when they get days off from work. I volunteered to stay at home with grampa. He was so sad and spoke of Nanna almost constantly. I just could not let him spend posibly his last Christmas like that. So I went out and bought lights and flowers, and wreaths and a little tree. I decorated his room in total Christmas, lights around the window, teddy bears around the little tree. I did what I thought Nanna would have been proud of and I didn't care who saw it or who knew. I even did a collage thing with a bunch of cards I bought(there was no one left to send him cards, but it used to be a big thing when Nanna was still alive to display all the cards on the mantle) and when I showed him the cards he called me Jackie---Nanna's name...

  He died the next December, after I left JWs. But he did not make it to another Christmas, that one was his last and MY first Christmas. I can't tell you how proud I am of myself. And I would have done it again.

  Ravyn
• 

  outnfree

  ((((((((((((Rayvn))))))))))))

  How deeply touching! Kudos to you...

  out
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  DJ

  ((((((((((Ravyn))))))))))))) tears in my eyes.......love, dj
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  teejay

  You done good, Ravyn. You done real good.
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  onacruse

  Ravyn, your sensitivity to Gramp's feelings, and so willingly deferring your own convictions in consideration to his wishes...well, that was just beautiful.

  You and DJ both: Well and proudly done.

  Craig
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  Brummie

  But, it was all essentially just sterile information; lots of facts and knowledge, but no personal meaning, no application. A noggin full of rocks, rocks that could be gold nuggets someday, but not that day.

  I can relate to that for sure!

  there is a bright and happy light at the end of that JW tunnel. And the path beyond is also full of promise.

  I have experienced that for sure

  With your indulgence, I'll continue on later a with some of the thoughts that have congealed for me in the last few days.

  I'm looking forward to this for sure

  I'm pretty sure arnt I though?

  Great thread Onac

  Brummie
• 

  Goshawk

  Ravyn,
  
  Your actions transcended beyond faith and belief into the realm of true love. I wonder how many of us could be so brave? I am truly impressed.
  
  Goshawk
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  Loris

  These are the senses in which I use these two terms, and which, perhaps, led to some seeming ambiguity in the way I've expressed myself on recent threads.

  Onacruse

  Ah yes semantics. S.I. Hayakawa is responsible in part for my love of language. He gave me an understanding that what we say very often is not what other people hear. If our semantic habits are outdated we may pre-judge, mis-evaluate, draw false inferences, jump to conclusions, mis-label and often fail to understand each other.

  When we really desire to be understood often we must first do as you have done; define the meaning behind the relevant words we use. That way everyone in our intended audience is on the same page so to speak.

  I like how your mind works. Please continue with your thoughts.

  Loris
• 

  onacruse

  Proposition 1: We individually exist alone and isolated from all beings in this universe.

  Purport: We have no other way than to determine all things for ourselves within ourselves.

  __________

  "Ah," you say, "but I'm not alone at all. I see, touch, hear, talk with other people all day long. I'm far from alone."

  But what is it that happens when we "see" something? Nothing more than the physical stimulation of our retinal nerves by an electromagnetic radiation (the various frequencies of which we are conditioned to label as "color"). Thus, not all people see the same color as we do (e.g. color-blindness), and some people experience a taste instead of a color (a neurological condition called synesthesia). So also with hearing, and touching. They affect our corporeal organism, and are processed through any number of chemical and electrical mechanisms; but we never "grasp the essence" of those stimuli. What's more, those stimuli never touch our "essence" (soul, being, the "I," the "spark of life," and any number of other terms).

  "Well, ok then. I see what you mean about physical sensations. That's why I can't tell you what the color "red" is, or how "soft" feels. But, when I talk with people, I definitely DO feel touched inside. We exchange ideas and feelings, and those aren't physical things at all."

  True enough. But consider this: I put my hand on Katie's arm, look into her eyes, and say "I love you." She "processes" the combination of my touch, and my look, puts that together with my words, and interprets within herself what I'm feeling. She never actually experiences what I'm experiencing; she knows only what love feels like to her, and she overlays her meaning to me, and responds in kind, "I know, Craig, and I love you too." And we both walk away, confident that we know exactly how each other feels. But we never actually exchanged one iota of "essence," that ethereal emotion hidden within our miserable little bags of salt and water called "bodies." (Why do I suspect that this last comment is gonna get me into trouble? LOL )

  However, no two people see the external world in exactly the same way. To every separate person a thing is what he thinks it is-in other words, not a thing, but a think.
  Penelope Fitzgerald

  "That sounds awfully nebulous, Craig. If what you say is correct, then how can I know anything?"

  We can know things only as we feel them in ourselves. Self-determination is not a right; it's a fact of our individual unique existence.

  All thought must, directly or indirectly, by way of certain characters, relate ultimately to intuitions, and therefore, with us, to sensibility, because in no other way can an object be given to us.
  Immanuel Kant

  A theological corollary: God must accept each and every one of us according to this nature of our being. "And here now, they have become like us, knowing good and bad." For Him to do otherwise would be for Him to invalidate the result of His own creative act. "God cannot lie," that is, be false to or to contradict what He Himself has done, or to expect us to be anything other than what He created us to Be. There can be no "guilt" attached to self-determination.

  Therefore, self-determination is a universal moral.

  Craig

  My next proposition will be "Ignorance is moral."
• 

  SixofNine

  *in my best Forest Gump*~ Synesthesia's very rare; that's about all I have to say about that. 'Cepin' maybe, I'm not a smart man, but I thought I knew what love was.