Can anyone help me understand the motive of the WTS? I don't think it's money . . . the GB lives at bethel in a pretty low standard of living. It's not power . . . all the books and mags are written by anonymous writers. I faded away a couple of years ago . . . and I keep coming back to this question. What is their motive to keep the charade going?
What is the WTS's motive?
by careful fader 82 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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gumby
They evidently still believe what we believed., How I don't know , considering all the exposer that they are aware of and what those claims are. You would think that KNOWING where they are wrong.......if they were good men......they would change things, admit things, or get out but they do not. Where will they go to they must ask themselves?
Being in a different position as we are, perhaps they cannot, and do not, use all the tools we used to learn the Borg was bunk. Maybe they never get that far.
Gumby
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StinkyPantz
Careful Fader-
Many of the GB live quite well actually. There was a thread recently talking about how they owned private jets and got to travel all over. PLUS, people put them on a pedestal, like they are sacred. Power might very well be why they keep up the charade.
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SixofNine
First of all, I'd think a bit harder on that "power" issue. I think you'll see it differently.
Second, what was your motive/s when you were in? Don'tcha think that's a big part of their motive too? With the added motivation that they really believe that they are one of about 12 people out of billions who can direct god's interest. How's that for motivation?
Third, welcome to the forum.
ps. while you're re-thinking the power thing, re-think that "the GB lives at bethel in a pretty low standard of living" thing as well. There is nothing low about that standard of living.
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onacruse
Careful fader, welcome to the forum!
I concur with SP and Six that power is the key factor, and the money is relevant primarily as it is a means to that end. And not just for the GB; think of the thousands of brothers around the world that derive a measure of influence by being responsible for large expenditures of money: brothers that negotiate with hotel chains for assembly accommodations, brothers brokering property deals for new KHs, brothers on building committees wheeling and dealing for construction supplies. There is a definite ego-stroke to have "worldly" business-people defer to you, treat you like someone important.
Like Six, I would also add "megalomania" to the motivation of many. After all, they're on a mission from God, eh?
Craig
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gumby
So do ANY of you think that they believe....or most of them, that they are truely fullfilling the role of that Faithfull Slave?
Do you think that they REALLY believe the time is at hand and this Organisation is special?
Or do you think the chances of 12 men loving stardom is really the only factor?
I think some are in denial to the fact that perhaps they honestly feel justified in their lifestyle.
Gumby
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Ravyn
well Gumby,
I just don't see how any of them can believe what they knowingly fabricate. It would be very difficult to believe your own lies when they are so completely outrageous and irreverent. Especially when it takes so much work and research to come up with the lies.
They know exactly what they print. They also know that they are looked to to decide the fate of millions of men, women and children. They dictate everything from how millions dress, to how millions have sex! That is a massive power trip. And they do live in luxury. Could anyone else in NYC afford to live in penthouse suites, with every care taken for granted? They have no reason to ever leave the building...they have the best food, the best clothing, the best health care, and thousands of ready and willing servants at their beck and call. They travel the world, in private jets and ride in luxury cars. They drink the best wines. don't let anyone tell you any differently. Just because they don't flaunt it as something to be proud of like the rest of the world does---does not mean it is not happening. It has been happening since Rutherford.
And as far as 'Faithful and Discreet Slave class' goes--they INVENTED it! Jesus gave a parable that meant what he said. There is no 'modern day fulfillment'! Jesus was talking to Jews who understood what he was saying, and he was teaching them to be more giving and caring, his message of love. It was not prophetic! It was only what it was. I could take the fairytale of Goldilocks and the Three Bears and with some 'creative license' I could make it into some kind of Nostradamus-like prophecy of the bombing of the WTC! (The US is Goldilocks just disregarding the property rights of others and gobbling up all the oil and breaking all the thrird world economies and then contentedly sleeping in the beds of others...see? not so hard!)
Don't let them fool you. They know exactly what they are doing, have been doing, and intend to keep doing. It IS a matter of power and greed, and they don't care who dies or who's lives are ruined as long as they have nice comfy beds and get to play god.
reprehensible.
Ravyn
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onacruse
Ravyn, very well said. gumby, for many many years I had absolutely no doubt that the GB was a group of the most spiritual men on the planet, honest to the core and of purest heart, humble before God. Various things over the years tarnished that feeling, but I still made allowances like "Well, one or two bad apples there are, but still, most of them are good Christians." But the accumulation of evidence has just become too much to ignore. I hate to attribute bad motive to anyone, but the facts speak for themselves. I wish it was otherwise.
Also, like the saying goes "you can't change a leopard's spots." I've been re-reading the 30s WTS lit here this last month, and it is simply mind-boggling, the blatant power-grabbing that characterized the entire Rutherford era, and how he absolutely vilified anybody and anything that got in his way. Knorr inherited that well-centralized top-down organization, and rather than express any objection to the way things got that way and try to change the tone of things, instead he used it to the fullest advantage, and even tightened things further.
Nah, the evidence is too much.
Craig
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Lady Lee
A part of me really wants to believe that there might be some there who want to change things - make it right.
However, I have tried too many times to fight for change from the inside. It doesn't work unless you have all the power. And the way things are now, the ones with the power are not about to let go of it. In fact, it looks like they will fight tooth and nail to maintain their power.
It was a heady feeling my ex-husband had - your average poor salesman - when he went into the kingdom hall and had people look up to him. He was so deluded at one point he thought he was anointed. (yeah right) But he really struggled with this idea that he was special. There was nothing in his life that he felt good about except being a JW elder. He gained all his self-esteem from that one thing. Take that away and I think he would be lost - broken. He gave up his education when he started studying. He gave up any interests he had, music, science, mathematics - everything. If he gave up the JWs and the power they gave him he would believe he had nothing. Heck he even lost his family (twice) trying to be faithful to this belief - when I left our daughters left too and his second wife left him after 10 years with him and took her daughters by her first marriage.
The more he loses the more he needs to believe he hasn't lost it all for nothing. So he stays.
I suspect a lot of people at the top are in it for the same reasons.
"Where are we to go?"
The WTS has taken everything and replaced it with false dreams. It is very painful to acknowledge that and move forward. I think a lot of people can't or won't do that
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peacefulpete
I read Steven Piner's book aout human nature and it expounds upon he way the mind is wired for self deception. It makes us better liers if we are not aware we are in fact lying. It is complicated but the bottom line is we can pursue a delusion to the extreme end (death,killing,shunning etc.)as long as the delusion is working. This is why people leave only when the facade is cracked by scandal or injustice first. The delusion is perceived as no longer beneficial and is can then be recognised as a farse. Typically the next delusion is to blame others for the having been blind. Typically those deluded by their own minds twist facts and logic without consciously deceptive motives. When a person of the opposing view however sees the delusion in another person the arguements are seen as "lies and cover ups" when the terms delusions and distortions is pobably closer to the fact. Knowing this about our minds can humble us enough to rethink cherished views we unquestionably accept. Critical thinking is difficult exactly for these reasons, it works counter to our mind's inclination tward self deception.