IQ and JWs (page 3)

kgfreeperson

Well, there is the native ability you are born with and the intelligence you develop throughout your life. JW as an organization (at least according to their literature that I have slogged through) has no intellectual integrity. The writing style is intentionally abstruse; the logic is intentionally convoluted. I believe both characteristics are designed to make things so hard to understand that when a direct statement is made, it is accepted without reservation just out of relief! Oh, is *that* all they're talking about? And, the strategy also ensures that JWs doubt their own intelligence and ability to reason. The Watch Tower's insistence that "the truth" is based on logic makes me nuts. This is Alice in Wonderland logic at best. But if the only intellectual training you've gotten is through the organization, you are not likely to understand that it is not *you* who can't understand, but *they* who are working to confuse and befuddle you in order to control you and build their organization. Also, the more I read, the more I believe that JW induces depression in a lot of the faithful. Depressed people look and act as if they are not intelligent.

Mecurious?

Some here would argue that in other areas, such as "critical thinking", JWs scores might be lower--but I doubt it .

Good point. Quite a few have good thinking skills and realize that what’s being taught is bullsh*t yet stays because of prestige (Governing body, Circuit and district overseers, elders etc). Others are intelligent but were raised in the truth from infancy and still have family ties. I actually started having serious doubts four years ago after my sister died from not taking blood. But the question remains. How can a person be smart and continue to blindly follow falsehoods, lies, and hypocrisy? How can a person ignore mounds of evidence and still refuse to see the “truth”? Well, sadly if the need is strong enough some people can be led to do almost anything.

B’

kgfreeperson

It's a high control cult, but it's *my* high control cult?

amac

I have to agree with Oroborus. I think it is ridiculous to equate low IQs with JWs, or to think that just because we think differently then them that we are smarter. There are all kinds of intelligent people in the world who belong to some crazy way of thinking.

I know one thing for sure, it takes some intelligence to run the WT so that it rakes in as much money as it does.

drwtsn32

IQ tests do not have to be culturally biased. The Mensa admission test (basically two standardized IQ tests) are not biased to any particular culture, do not require that you memorize "facts," and do not require that you be an ace in mathematics. You can be great at math and remember tons of minute details, but you still may have an average IQ.

Real IQ tests are not things you can study for.

I do agree that intelligence is only one of many factors that may cause someone to leave the org. And there's probably no way to quantify exactly how much it actually affects a person's ability to "break free." But there's no denying that intelligence will help someone see through the Watchtower's lies.

In the congregations I have attended, most of the people were not what I would call "smart." It's probably because the WT discouraged college so much; a very low percentage ever attended college.

garybuss

Hi Freedomrules,

The reason practicing Witnesses do not appear smart while they are working for the group, and suddenly appear smart after they leave is a good topic.

Inside the group, intelligence is seen as a liability. Proof of intelligence is seen as pride and arrogance. It is the kiss of death for an organization climber to appear smarter than one's superior. To be a Witness in good standing and a ladder climber, Witnesses had to appear humble and that looked a lot like dumb.

Women have it especially hard in the organization in my opinion. So many I know are far smarter than the men in charge. Smarter than me. They know their language better, spell better, study better for meetings, actually read the literature, and know Witness doctrine far better than many men who are elders. Yet they can NEVER teach the group or be used in positions of service. The highest a woman can ever be in the congregation is pioneer and that is duty most elders don't like or even do very often in my experience.

That's a contributing reason many of us left. We knew we were smarter and better educated than the elders who strut their power in their Goodwill IBM business suits. Many of us who didn't even qualify to be microphone boy made five and six times as much money at our jobs as the elders.

Thanks for the topic. Hope all is well in your world. Gary

The Way I See it http://www.freeminds.org/buss/buss.htm

larc

Orobours21,

I hate to tell you that you really don't know what you are talkin, about IQ wise. First of all you assert that IQ tests are culturally biased. Proof it with research information, not assertions. Hunter and Schmidt, in Psyhological Bullitin in 1998 demonstrated through meta-analysis that IQ tests are the single best predictor of job success.

So, your next point is incorrect where you assert that IQ is not related to occupational acheivement or educatioanal acheivement. That is simply not true. Do you really believe that someone in a sheltered workshop will do as well as someone who gets a PhD in pyshics??? Cut me a break.

Your next assertion is also, misguided. You state that the tests don't measure common sense. Well, the Informatiomn subtest of the Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale, does measure it.

Now, your last point has to do liguistic and Matimatical ability. Actually, good tests measure these factors, plus spatial ability.

larc

Oops,

I made a mistake. It is the Comprehnsion subtest, not the Information subtest of the Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale.

asleif_dufansdottir

How about a factor that is indirectly related to actual IQ - the ability to ...how do I want to say this...think from another person's point of view??

Maybe an example will better explain. I was the only one in my Sunday School class as a kid (including my teacher), who could comprehend that if I'd actually been raised in India, in a culture that did not automatically assume that Christianity was right, I might not see why Christianity was the "true religion". As a JW, I could understand perfectly why "worldly" people were not interested in our message, and did not scoff at their stupidity and blindness the way almost every other JW I knew did.

I was the only one I knew who was bothered by God ordering the deaths of thousands of people who just didn't know any better. Plus I thought he sucked for ordering the animals be killed. It sure wasn't their fault their owners were "pagan"...and why did they have to suffer and die because "God's chosen people" got greedy if given the opportunity to loot??

I don't think it was just my IQ that got me out of the JWs and Christianity in general, I think it was the way I thought.

amac

As a JW, I could understand perfectly why "worldly" people were not interested in our message, and did not scoff at their stupidity and blindness the way almost every other JW I knew did.

I don't mean any offense by this, as you are to be commended for the knack of being open to the way other people think...but I guess the extension of this example would be that now you are an ex-JW, can you understand why others are a JW, and not scoff at their stupidity and blindness the way almost every other ex-JW does?

IQ and JWs

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