Those "secret files" the elders kept on each & every one of us?
by FreeofGuilt 19 Replies latest jw friends
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jgnat
In Canada, the Access to Information laws, so far, only apply to Government agencies. Collection of information legislation, and how it is used (brought about mostly because of the speed of e-commerce) has recently come in to effect. This legislation applies to both private industry and government. People have a right to know how information that has been collected about them is used, and it cannot be used for a purpose other than why it was originally collected.
For instance, if Joe JW's mother dies, and he goes to an elder for solace, that elder should not be passing that information to his brother-in-law who also happens to be a funeral director. That elder would be using the information for a New Use that Joe JW did not give permission for.
Of course, religious organizations are exempt from a lot of legislation.
When I looked in to this last time, I did find that there is Common Law regarding defamation of character and suchlike. So you can sue.
Just from my personal experience, when an organization is secretive, the public assumes that the information held by that organization is extensive and well-indexed. As the government has become more open about it's holdings, it is apparent that government is not well-organized, and they actually have very little information on John Q Public. What a disappointment for conspiracy theorists!
I wouldn't worry about it.
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Gadget
I believe the law is different in the UK, it applies to all organisations. Experian, a credit reference agency not connected to government is obliged by law to make available personal copies to people on request under this law. They are allowed to make an admin charge for this. Has anyone looked into this in th UK? I don't intend to ask for this myself, but I think it could be a good way for someone to establish a legal judgement against the society, which would make great publicity if they went against court orders.
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jgnat
Darn. I remember digging up a whole bunch of stuff, but I can't find the old thread on it. Oh well. Here are a few I found while browsing around.
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Gadget
jgnat, thanks for the links, especially the last one. It sais about some people who'd been told by the elders their file was destroyed. Has anyone had this, then tried to get reinstated? What would happen if in this case if the file was then produced, or what would they use in the committee if the file WAS actually destroyed?
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FreeofGuilt
Thanks for all of your wise comments. Especially the fire one! (HA) Yeah, the links that jgnat provided were interesting, & I really don't think they destroyed the records. I was at the Kingdom Hall once when I was a Pioneer by myself (I had a key), & I tried out of curiosity to open the filing cabinet in the 2nd ministerial school/library, & it was locked. I then concluded that that is where the files were kept. I often have BAD ideas about catching the place on fire, but then the consequences are too great. (Bad idea). Anyway, I also wondered if they make a copy & send them to the Headquarters. Is anyone out there an ex-Elder that can give some insight? Maybe that is why the P.O. in that case ( jgnat above presented) could say that they destroyed them because they had a second copy @ the Headquarters.... I wonder how many people would be willing to get together & sue. How, or where would you begin to lodge a complaint against JW's on this matter in the USA ? I know it 's not the BBB, right? Someone else said that the files would sit & collect dust, but would they really? I guess before anyone makes the attempt to ask for their records, it would be better to disassociate yourself, because after you ask to destroy the records they will disfellowship you anyway. It is a lot of trouble, but think about how much trouble they have caused all of us...
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jgnat
Hey! Who activated my researcher gene! On a fine summer's day, too. I just HAD to go digging and get what I got last time, plus more. In summary, you might be able to sue, but it has never been tested whether it is damaging just for a church to have information about you. My thinking, at least, is that it is much easier to claim damages if the society declares you "bad association" or "self-disassociated", thereby depriving you of the love and care of those closest to you.
Information on Privacy law in Canada - http://www.privacyinfo.ca/
More informationon electronic privacy in Canada - http://www.pipeda.org/
All about Common Law and Privacy - http://www.journal.law.mcgill.ca/arts/422craig.pdf
Another "deep" paper on the subject - http://www.paulschwartz.net/SREP-CK.pdf
Malicious Prosecution
SWAMI KRIY ANANDA http://www.anandainfo.com/demurrer.html Huh! The swami went through her attorney’s trash! Not church privacy, but attorney-client priveledge was breached here. Weird enough, though.
The court is disinclined to accept technical arguments about ownership and possession in the context of protecting parties in litigation from unscrupulous litigants and their attorneys who would gain an advantage in litigation by stealing privileged and protected documents. It must be emphasized that the information contained in the documents was presumably retained by plaintiffs attorneys and subject to plaintiffs and her attorney's ownership and right to possession unless they were abandoned or not protected by the right to privacy, as more thoroughly discussed below. ... Here, even though documents containing confidential and privileged information were placed in the trash, plaintiff and her attorney's had reasonable expectations of a right to possession and ownership of the information contained therein where such information was in all probability retained in the attorney's files. [Emphasis Added] It is concluded that the complaint alleges sufficient facts showing ownership or right possession in both plaintiff and her attorneys.
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FreeofGuilt
Thanks....!!!! I just found this so take a look @ www.bigwig.net/knots/nightmares/data.htm
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jgnat
Very nice! Three cheers for the UK!
A bit of a history lesson, Europe has a long history with privacy rights, having had some negative experiences with unscrupulous kings and a little man called Hitler. I was taught that the public in Europe is much more aware of their rights in this area, and the legislation is much tougher.
Canada and the US, not having the same history, are catching up slowly. Here, the legislation is being pushed to enable e-commerce with Europe. European businesses are understandably leery to set up e-connections with businesses in North America where "anything goes" in the area of distributing and selling private information. The public is only slowly becoming aware of their rights in this area.
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Rainmakerone
when u shift congregation, the new body of elders will contact the old ones and request your cards and records and will often recieve a "letter of recomendation" outlining your good (and bad) points.
now to my thinking, what would happen if u faked a letter, hmmm?
and got them sent to u?
all u need is the letter head from any old congregation.
my father was the P.O. for many years and recieved letters like this all the time, they were simply sent to our house. then he'd hand them over to the secretary at the next meeting.