Vicki Boer Update from Silentlambs

by blondie 16 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

• 

  Realist

  how does this work in canada...is the decision of this judge legally binding for all future cases?
• 

  hawkaw

  It is legally binding on future cases in Ontario, Canada as well as it can be used as jurisprudence in other jurisdictions. But if Vicki does manage to win, this one will be going to the Supreme's since there will be a constitutional issue to address.

  This case all boils down to - do the elders owe Vicki a duty of care? But, quite frankly this is a difficult case and I really express concern over some of the comments made on this thread.

  You guys do realize we are trying to convince a judge that a young adult (not child ... but adult) was prevented from the seeking proper mental medical help and was forced to attend a confrontation in a voluntary religious organization that has religious protection under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Her Honour got a crash course in JWism and understanding shunning etc. but I sure don't know if it is enough or not.

  You guys do realize that Vicki's counsel kinda did not provide her Honour with the knock out jurisprudence punch that was necessary.

  You are damn luck Her Honour, with the Criminal case load she has in front of her, is likely doing some of the legal research that plantiff's counsel should have done in the first place.

  Vicki needs a fair shake period. And that is what this judge is giving - which is far from justice denied.

  As for the charges aspect. Court was told that the police were never informed of the incident only Children's Aid was informed by Vicki's father but the file was lost - interesting.
• 

  neverthere

  It is not the first time that CAS has lost a file here, especially in such "tight knit" communities. There are many times that CAS is called in and the police is never informed. Did you think that Gower would just walk into the local precinct and say "hey here I am I molested my daughter, arrest me!" Even if he had the local police all knew him, still do.

  The point being, from what Vicki told me, the judge is working on her ruling and that could be a good sign, anything from deciding damages to putting it down in the correct format and manner so that her ruling is clear.

  Knowing what I know, I pray that Vicki wins.

  I'm pulling for ya Vicki,

  Diana
• 

  needs_lots

  Hawkeye

  From Scott

  In response to your post I would like to raise the following arguments:

  1. The idea of constitutional challenge is interesting but what will be at stake is not the religious freedom of the JW's but whether the JW's have the right to infringe on the basic human rights of one of its members once that member has stated that they do not want to go throught with a religious practice.

  To use an analogy:

  Your boss wants to engage in a sexual relationship with you. You are not interested and state so.. but then your boss brings financial pressure to bear, indicating that you might lose your job and your house and maybe your marriage if you dont cooperate.

  If you then succumb to the pressure and later bring charges against your boss the courts would side with you in a heartbeat and find the boss guilty of using undue influence and his/her position of authority over you to force you to do something you dont want to.

  If the boss then used the argument that it is a company policy that employees have to sleep with their boss he would be laughed out of court. Would the courts say that he has no responsibility because you could have quit and walked away from your sole source of income at any time.

  The JW's were vickis life at that time ... all her family and friends were JW's... For them to say that she could have just stopped being a JW and walk away was absurd. Age of the person is no greater a factor than it would be for a date rape case.

  The basic tenent of my argument is this:

  The charter of rights and freedoms guarantees a persons right to volontarily partake of a religion and any religious practice they want without interference from a third party.

  However once a person states that they dont want to partake of a religious practice or policy, they are setting themselves apart from that religion and asserting their rights as a Canadian citizen. The charter of rights and freedoms then should shelter them from undue influence by the religion to submit to a mentaly or physically harmful practice.

  If the religion then brings to bear an undue influence on that person and causes harm to their physical or mental well being then the religion has contravened the Charter of rights and freedoms and in my mind has broken their fiduciary duty.

  Once having inflicted harm on their member the church owes a duty of care to mitigate the damages caused by their actions. If they then simply set adrift the member and ignore the damage they caused then they are guilty of neglegence.

  At no time did vicki submit willingly to the process. She was very vocal in her opposition and it was only after extreme pressure was brought to bear that she submitted. The elders ignored her cries for help and her angst about the confrontation process.

  Then to be told to forgive the abuser was simply cruel.

  Scott
• 

  Xandria

  Justice is just not only blind, but deaf and biased by thier peers too ? This is rediculous.

  This is something I wrote for my web page, it applies to this situation too.

  			The Executive and Legislative branches were created to enact laws and protect the interests of the people. The Judicial branch stands as the final arbiter, and is created through nominations by the other two. Each of these three branches are utterly worthless, and indeed profoundly dangerous, without the active involvement of the People. That goes for government as well as, our judicial system. We are the fourth branch of government, the owners of the democracy,and have been remised in our duties; by not demanding our collective voices be heard. By being silent we allow those to walk over us. Right now it looks as justice is blind, slow and deaf. Hopefully she is not easily fooled. We are the keepers of the flame..lets not allow our voices be silenced. Vikki~ is the the keeper of the flame. Lets just hope justice isn't blind to the light of it. X.
• 

  MacHislopp

  Hello Blondie and all the others,

  thanks for sharing the latest update on Vicky's case.

  I do sincerely hope for the true justice.

  Vicky...Europe is with you!!!

  Wishing all the best to you and your family,

  James Charles MacHislopp
• 

  waiting

  This is a big political issue and I'm sure the judge wants to take the large female constituency into account. On the other hand, religious corporations still have a lot of clout, and a decision against the Watchtower has dire implications for other religions, which the judge must also take into account - alan f

  Damned if she does.....damned if she doesn't.

  Hello Hawk,

  You guys do realize we are trying to convince a judge that a young adult (not child ... but adult) was prevented from the seeking proper mental medical help and was forced to attend a confrontation in a voluntary religious organization that has religious protection under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Her Honour got a crash course in JWism and understanding shunning etc. but I sure don't know if it is enough or not.

  You guys do realize that Vicki's counsel kinda did not provide her Honour with the knock out jurisprudence punch that was necessary.

  You are damn luck Her Honour, with the Criminal case load she has in front of her, is likely doing some of the legal research that plantiff's counsel should have done in the first place.

  Having a couple of lawyers in my family & been in front of court with other lawyers - I've come to realize that:

  1. Lawyers don't always sufficiently research their foes - or the issues at stake.

  2. Few outsiders understand the WTBTS - what is written by WT & what is understood by the locals.

  3. Providing xjw links, etc., is good - but only if the lawyers understand the implications.

  4. Some lawyers provide paralegals with the research load, then lawyers review. Well, reviewing doesn't mean they have a total picture - just the pertinent facts.

  5. Few understand Jehovah's Witnesses......except an x-Jehovah's Witness with Really Good Connections.

  Probably missed a couple points, but thanks for your post.

  waiting