The demon dream

by detective 16 Replies latest jw friends

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  detective

  As some of you may know, I came these boards quite some time ago due to my close connection to a Jehovah's Witness. I watched as he struggled and watched as he left the organization. To explain him, he is ~out~ physically, but still somewhat ~in~ mentally. He really hasn't explored the reality behind the group and doesn't seem ready yet to address that end of things. I suspect it will be somewhat traumatic for him when he does.

  I may have mentioned previously that I found it interesting that in all the years I knew him as a witness, he could never remember his dreams. Not a one. And then, he left the group. Suddenly he's recounting dreams he's had the night before with ever increasing detail. I'd bet big dollars on the fact that leaving the group has somehow contributed to his newfound ability to remember dreams. I'm sure there must be a psychological explanation for this recent relatively recent development (he's been "out" a little over a year now).

  Anyway, last night he had a nightmare. He woke up from a distressing dream, and although he was awake, he immediately felt terrified that demons and ghosts might be real. And then, a sense of overwhelming loneliness set in. As he told me how distraught he was, I felt sad that he didn't pick up the phone and call me as he had wanted to (who doesn't need to reach out to someone close at a difficult time!?) but he didn't want to wake me up. He's not alone, not really. He has friends and a love and a surrogate family. But, of course, that feeling must have been incredibly awful nonetheless.

  I remember when I was growing up- thanks to the Six Million Dollar Man- I was sure that Big Foot lived in my family's sewing room. In the middle of the night I would sprint past the doorway on my way to the bathroom, as I was positive that Big Foot would emerge from the back of the room and, I dunno, eat me or something. I was terrified. Here's the thing- I can't imagine if I told my parents about my Big Foot theory and they sat me down on the bed and said, "you know, honey, we know Big Foot exists and it's possible that he might live in the sewing room to boot!" I can't even imagine the horror I would have felt if my parents- the adults- had said such a thing to me!

  Well, here's my friend... a grown man... lying awake at night, afraid of monsters. Of demons.

  Sad. Very sad indeed.
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  concerned mama

  I understand what you are saying, detective. I am an outsider as well. I feel so sad for the JWs who live a life of fear and guilt because of Watchtower teachings. A life where they can't appreciate anything wonderful or beautiful or good, because they have been taught the world is evil. So very, very sad.
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  Introspection

  One of the most incredible things the mind can do is trick itself, yet we see this happen all the time. I can remember one time, about a year or so out and still pretty much in the same mindset I had a very vivid demon type experience, although I was under the influence of a psychoacoustic CD that is designed to alter your mental state. You don't need to know a lot about psychology to see that your friend is starting to become aware of fears that was previously repressed, if he is going to be free mentally it will only keep coming up.

  On a practical note, you can reason with him by asking who's the one that had the dream? Nobody believes all their dreams are haunted by demons even if they believe it happens sometimes, so how do they know it's not just their mind playing tricks on them? The way you feel is clearly unreliable, even the witnesses believe that some people who feel they are alright are in fact wicked in God's eyes, so wouldn't feeling badly be just as unreliable as a gauge? This is not to say the feeling itself is not real, if you're feeling it then a feeling exists - but it doesn't necessarily mean what the person thinks it means, it's just a feeling.
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  rem

  This is an interesting point - one that I brought out to one of my coworkers a while back. When kids in normal families have nightmares or think they see things in the dark, their parents will reassure them by letting them know that those things don't exist. It was different in my family, though. If I had a bad dream or thought I saw a demon, the response was more like, "hmmm... you might be right... did we buy anything from a garage sale lately?"

  rem
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  Double Edge

  Facinating post. Some advice for your friend (take it for what it's worth), but I've never been a JW, but like you I have a friend who is one. Every once in a while, for no explanation, I wake up in the middle of the night, maybe a nightmare, maybe not, but I have an overwhelming 'negative' feeling (I want to say 'evil', but then people here will roll their eyes...anyway)... at the time, it is real scary and I find myself actually shaking. I can't say what it is or if it is anything other than a weird nightmare, but to me at the time it is very real. In the past 30 years or so, this has happened to me about 10-15 times, so it's not a very frequent occurance, but I've learned how to deal with it. I use to just be freaked out for a couple of hours until I fell back to sleep. Now I know that when it happens, I immediately turn on a lot of lights, go downstairs and turn on the television and some 'happy', music (easy rock, whatever). I get a little snack of something I really like, and try to make the situation seem like it's 8pm at night and everything is cool. Within about 10-15 minutes, everything is 'cool', I turn off the t.v., downstairs lights, go back upstairs, listen to talk radio, turn the lights off and I'm out like a light in minutes. The key is just not to sit there in that 'negative' atmoshere giving in to the feeling - take control and turn it to positive.

  my 2 cents.
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  JeffT

  For what it's worth, for years while in the Borg, I had dreams that I couldn't move and was being suffocated by demons. The only way I could escape from this was by yelling "Jehovah" loud enough. After I got out, they mostly went away. A few years ago I read an article about this. When dreaming, the body puts out an enzyme that effectively paralyzes you (a good thing, it keeps you from getting killed by your spouse when you're having that special dream about Liv Tyler). So I spent years freaking out over a normal body function.

  I became a dub as an adult, I can't imagine the effect this crap has on kids.
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  detective

  Rem, exactly! I'm sorry. I really am. That's exactly what struck me. Where is the rational thinking? The comfort? The things that kids need from a parent? And where does it leave them when, as adults, they wake up terrified by phobias of demons and ghosts... desperately lonely... and can't even recall a single time when, long ago, someone told them it would be okay? He was a kid again last night. A scared, lonely kid again.

  I forget sometimes that I had a "normal" childhood. And then, there are those sad reminders...

  I know, intellectually speaking, that his parents are made as much a victim as anyone by the phobia-fostering that these groups capitalize on. I mean, I ~try~ to accept it using that thought. But in reality, I just can't really accept it, try as I might. His parents converted. At what point during the conversion did they first hear tales of demon attacks? And exactly when did they stop dismissing it as hysteria? Or were they always inclined towards that sort of thinking and it was simply reinforced by group-approved phobia? When did the simple bump in the night become something more for them? When did a bad run of luck become Satan screwing with their lives? Where was the filter?

  No, dear, there isn't any Santa Claus...but let me tell you about the demons...

  It's hard. Part of me wants to let them off the hook and part of me just can't.

  Concerned mama, double edge- it's difficult, seeing it from the outside, isn't it? And yet, for all the hardships and flaws that we might have known in our own experiences on the "outside", there is always one more sad, sad reminder of how lucky we were to have never been "in".

  Intro, thanks for mentioning your experience & the suggestions. He's a bit shaken still and seemingly a little embarassed. I may try to talk it out using your suggestions.
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  Mary

  Your friend might also be experiencing what's known as "sleep paralysis". It's where the mind is still in the dream or REM state, but your body isn't in "sync" with it and you feel paralysed with fear and the feeling that demons or something else is in the room with you.

  I had this before and it scared the living hell out of me until I read what was causing it. Don't get me wrong, I still believe in demons, but your friends' experience might not really be demons after all.
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  heathen

  Interesting, I wonder if there is an analytical term for fear of demons. The fear of evil spirits is not exclusive to the jehovah witness . As long as there has been pagan culture there has always been the fear of evil spirits . There are many christian groups that would share your friends phobia . My grandmother is catholic and was known to call the local priest in to bless the house due to reported spirit sitings . I think there are spirits myself so wouldn't be too critical of the fellow . Sounds to me like something that will take some time for him to realize that not all people that see spirits turn into psychotic killers or loose all their senses .The WT does instill the fear of demonic influence on it's followers to an extreme that it seems everything in this world is either of satan or is detrimental in some way.
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  detective

  I'd agree that the fear of demons isn't just a JW thing. However, I'd also have to add that there is something enormously disturbing about parents or a group of adults not only allowing a child's fears to run rampant, but actually enabling such a phobia. And what is the result of that sort of environment, really?

  Interestingly, for all their faith in JAH, Jehovah's Witnesses never seem to feel safe. Of course, it makes sense that they wouldn't. It wouldn't do for the organization to allow a few fleeting moments of peace. Instead, fear motivates people. The sense of security doesn't. But how does that organizational fear-mongering translate within the home? Grown-ups who are subject to phobia-inducing strategies aren't really able to allay their children's fears as they themselves are captive to phobias. So little children are left without basic consolation. Without "safety". Sure, you can throw in a few "beg Jah to make those nasty demons go away" but the underlying warning is also "by the way, don't screw up or Jah will kill you". There is never any security. Never any comfort.

  So flash forward twenty odd years or so. A grown man wakes up terrified of {demons or tooth fairies or Santa Claus or monsters}. The fact remains that nobody ever told him as a child that these things might not be real. You know, demons/monsters/santa claus... oh wait... they ~did~ tell him that a benign little elf who gives kids presents isn't real. They just forgot to mention that whole ~demons~ might not be real thing to their son, that's all! No comfort. No safety.

  High-control groups seem to encourage phobias probably as a back up- just in case that whole social ostracism thing isn't quite enough to keep people in submission. But I think of those kids who never have the benefit of a rational voice to offer them solace and it really hits home the basic reality of living within a high-control group. And the emotional toll it takes on those kids, even into adulthood, is pretty awful really.