Is JW just another denomination?

by John Vogel 50 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Gerard
    Gerard

    The Jehovah's Witness learn to fear life itself, at least outside of the Watch Tower, so that if he/she were to ever leave the organization, the devil would destroy him/her and he/she would become miserable and suicidal. There are several members of the Watchtower's Bethel family in New York that knew the organization was wrong, but could not leave due to fear that they were incapable of getting a job, or that their lives would disintegrate. They were the victims of carefully planted phobias. Many of these phobias are rather obvious to outsiders. Simple, harmless things are blown out of proportion in order to keep Witnesses secluded from the real world.

    http://www.spiritwatch.org/whajwwon.htm


    http://home.powertech.no/festus/awaken/a-007.shtml

    FACTS YOU WON'T BE TOLD WHEN JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES CALL AT YOUR DOOR

    They believe & teach
    THAT all religions except theirs are of Satan, and your Pastor or Priest is under the Devil's control.
    THAT the Watch Tower Society is the only source of truth on earth today, and all churches teach error and will be destroyed at Armageddon.
    THAT the cross is a pagan symbol of sex worship, and that all buildings or persons displaying the cross are likewise pagan. Jehovah's Witnesses deny that Jesus died on the cross. However, recent "new light" in the WatchTower Magazine now admits they are not certain about the cross, but will continue to deny it anyway.
    THAT no one goes to heaven but 144,000 Jehovah's Witnesses, and your soul will be destroyed if you refuse their organization.
    THAT the Christ child was only an "IT", not a "HE". See the New World Translation, Luke 2:16,17.
    THAT Jesus was not the Christ (or Messiah) until age 30, even though their own bible says in Luke 2:11, "because there was born to you today a savior, who is Christ the Lord."
    THAT after Jesus was buried in the tomb, Jehovah dissolved his body into gases and it disappeared forever.
    THAT Jesus rose invisibly in three days, so Jehovah had to "materialize" a fake body for him complete with fake nailprints so His disciples would believe it was really Jesus risen.
    THAT Armageddon and Christ's second coming were foretold to happen in 1874, 1914, 1925 and 1975 by this "non-prophet" organization.
    THAT when Christ failed to show up in 1914 The Society claimed in later years that He had come invisibly--of course, and all Jehovah's Witnesses believe this today.
    THAT Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob etc. were to be back on earth as perfect humans in 1925. The Society built a palacial home for them BUT when the patriarchs failed to show up, the President of the Society moved in.
    THAT their light gets "brighter and brighter", allowing for many changes and "about faces" on their doctrines. Yesterday's error is today's "truth". Often the "light" bounces back and forth from old to new views and back again! Does real light return to darkness?
    THAT the Watch Tower Society and its followers are all prophets of God today and the Governing Body is directed by angels from God.
    THAT salvation for Society members consists of doing good works of selling Watch Tower books and magazines and winning converts.
    THAT soon Jehovah God will become a GRANDFATHER and Jesus will be promoted to "EVERLASTING FATHER"!
    THAT Jehovah God is not omnipresent, but still Almighty. Think! How can this be?

    They have NOT been told --
    By the leadership of the Society ....

    THAT when they translated their New World Translation of the Bible they deliberately altered almost every scripture on the deity of Christ, to make him only a creature.
    THAT the Society used a translation by a SPIRIT MEDIUM, Johannes Greber, to support their rendering of John 1:1 with full knowledge that his sources were DEMONIC.
    Greber was exposed in the Feb. 15/56 Watch Tower. However in 1961 they released a translation based on his occult one, then denied they knew what they were doing on page 31 of the Apr. 1, 1983 Watchtower!
    THAT none of their "translating committee" knew Biblical Greek or Hebrew. No scholars at all.
    That Fred Franz, who for many years headed the Society, perjured himself under oath in Scotland in a court trial, by saying he could read Hebrew, and then failing a simple Hebrew test.
    THAT the following encyclopedias consider the name "JEHOVAH" to be FALSE: Merits Student Enc.; Encyclopedia Americana; The Jewish Enc.; Encyclopedia International, The Interpreters Dictionary of the Bible; The New Catholic Enc.; The Universal Jewish enc., [Encyclopaedia Britannica] etc.
    J.W.'s own "Aid" book admits on pages 884 & 885 that "Jehovah" originated with a Catholic monk about 700 years ago!
    THAT the date 1874 was taught for Christ's invisible presence by the Society right up till 1929. (See their book, "Prophecy", page 65).
    THAT top executives of the Society have admitted under oath that they forced their members to accept false prophecies or face disfellowshipping and be found worthy of death.

    In Summary

    We find the Watch Tower Society practicing their belief that it is proper to deceive people. But they say this really isn't lying. Why? Because the Society has a different Definition of lying than most of us. In their book "AID TO BIBLE UNDERSTANDING" under the word "LIE" we read:

    "Lying generally involves saying something false to a person who is ENTITLED to know the truth....". "While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it".

    OF course it is the Watch Tower leaders who decide WHO deserves to know the truth.

    DO YOU DESERVE TO KNOW THE TRUTH ?


    *** Watchtower 1983 January 15 p.22 Exposing the Devil's Subtle Designs ***

    Avoid Independent Thinking

    20 From the very outset of his rebellion Satan called into question God's way of doing things. He promoted independent thinking. 'You can decide for yourself what is good and bad,' Satan told Eve. 'You don't have to listen to God. He is not really telling you the truth.' (Genesis 3:1-5) To this day, it has been Satan's subtle design to infect God's people with this type of thinking.-2 Timothy 3:1, 13.


    Life as a Jehovah's Witness
    by Jeanne Jackson

    At the age of five, my mind was fresh,
    my parent's taught me the Religious mess.
    They sat me down in hard back chairs,
    in Kingdom Halls full of stares.
    They told me GOD put men in power,
    mediating for us in an Ivory tower.

    Illuminated from the top,
    I don't think I like that thought!
    giving my mind, soul and body.
    belonging to them – that was my folly.
    We had the truth - it was not lies,
    our Governing Body was so wise.

    A well-trained parrot I came to be,
    for the Watchtower Society.
    They taught me my duty - like it or not,
    get up on the platform and give a talk.
    I did exactly what they said,
    Ignoring what the scripture read.
    If we didn't give a real good talk,
    we lacked GOD'S spirit and we were a flop.

    Never able to use my mind,
    with the GODLY freedom given mankind.
    Interpretation and prophesy
    was all figured out for you and me.
    My nose was always in their books,
    Nowhere else did I ever look.
    I preached to some about failed dates,
    and wondered why hearers were full of hate.

    Knocking on doors until my knuckles were sore,
    was never enough, they wanted more.
    A man may work from sun to sun,
    but the Society's prodding is never done.
    Mountains and mountains of hills I climbed,
    I thought this Work was truly Divine.

    A brother told me "DO YOUR PART,"
    "IF YOU DON 'T BRAVE THAT DOG
    THEN YOU'VE GOT NO HEART."
    A great judge he came to be
    for the Watchtower Society.
    I braved that dog on a mighty chain,
    while the ministerial servant in the car remained.

    Chased by a herd of geese,
    and vicious dogs biting at my feet.
    For the Society I only spoke,
    using scripture's they would quote.
    People would laugh and candidly say,
    "You're playing your own tune
    on that scripture today."

    I thought I was doing what I should,
    minding Mother and being good.
    They told me GOD would bless me well
    if all their literature I would sell.
    I never took a donut break -
    that time was sacred, for heaven's sake!
    Like a cop out on the beat,
    a day in service was my retreat.

    Missing meetings was a sin,
    you'd get the cold shoulder if you didn't attend.
    Peer pressure was there for hire,
    the ambition of the Society's desire.
    The Watchtower was their IDOL for study -
    JEHOVAH'S LETTERS for everybody.
    They said they were an Organization of love
    sent to us by the GOD above.
    Titles they use, like SISTER and BROTHER
    while secretly they inform on each other.

    Crushing sheep like broken reeds
    was part of their daily deeds.
    Making up a thousand rules,
    for sheep to keep like little fools.
    Adding to the scriptures, and taking away,
    you can be assured, that they will surely pay.
    The cost in stumbling has been great,
    not to mention the spilled blood they take.

    They said we were all equal, part of the body -
    but the Eldership was their "apple toddy."
    They've done the judging, meant for Christ,
    thinking their judgment would suffice.
    They always point away and say
    out in the world the Pharisees stay.
    Pretty pictures they love to paint,
    You'd think that they were man made saints.

    To the sheep they will not tend,
    they simply cannot comprehend.
    Calling their publishers the "RANK and FILE"
    slandering with reports all the while.
    I saw plenty in forty years,
    some which sadly brought me to tears.
    They talk about the widows mite,
    if you don't measure up, she'll surely bite.

    In committee meetings, they feel power -
    over their victims they can tower.
    To your face these cowards won't speak,
    playing platform games of hide and seek.
    They feel their rights just never end,
    and to their questions you must bend.
    What is your history? from where have you come?
    Digging up gossip, their work is never done.
    Where are your relatives?
    Are they living close nearby?
    We need to know your maiden name,
    because we NEED to spy!

    Jesus said, "TAKE NOT THEIR MONEY,"
    but to the Society, that's their honey!!

    Racking millions - that's what they take!!
    Trusts, wills, real estate, even jewelry
    would be just great!!
    They say that you'll he greatly blessed,
    If only you'd build up their little nest!!
    As I grew older, I could plainly see -
    there's a Watchtower conspiracy!!

    I opened their books and what did I see?
    RUTHERFORD and RUSSELL, looking back at me!!
    I thought to myself, "What can this be?
    It sure does look like IDOLATRY !!!
    They GLORIED in men, what a disgrace!!!

    Now the Governing Body is taking their place!!
    Jesus set the example, giving to the poor.
    The Watchtower Society just keeps asking
    for more, more, more!!
    Keep YOUR eyes SIMPLE, that is what they say.
    Don't build a house, keep materialism away!!
    They want more members, they have from the start.
    Their doing all they can for this,
    INCLUDING SUBLIMINAL ART!!!


    To forward a letter to Jeanne Jackson, send it email to Randy or in a sealed envelope to:
    Free Minds, Inc.
    PO Box 3818
    Manhattan Beach CA 90266

    -

  • ThiChi
    ThiChi

    ""ThiChi apparently believes that either,

    Jesus is not the True Son of God, or in a second God and denies that Jesus said, "I and my Father are one."

    People reject the CONCEPT and TRUTH of the unity of the Father and Son for various reasons, however it is directly biblical.""

    There you go again. The Bible does refer to Jesus being the "Son of God" not "God the Son."

    At John 17:21, 22, Jesus stated that his followers may be one, as Jesus and God are one. Jesus uses the same Greek word, hen, for "one." Are Jesus Followers part of the Trinity too? Or are you just taking the comment out of context?

    Any decent history book will show that the Trinity is truly just another man made doctrine after the falling away. Even the Catholic Encyclopedia Vol XIV p.299., admits this was not a concept of the first century Christians.

  • starScream
    starScream
    There you go again. The Bible does refer to Jesus being the "Son of God" not "God the Son."

    Jesus refered to himself as the Son of Man. I guess that means he was sub-human. Not. True Man from True Man, True God from True God. Son of Man/Son of God. If Son of Man = Man then True Son of God = God. You can hate it if you want to but it means you reject the True Son of God for a lesser version.

    John 20:28 Thomas proclaims that Jesus is not only the Lord of him but also his God. So he is truly the Son of God, therefore God the Son. So you are admitting you believe that he is a second God or not truly the Son of God.

    Jesus stated that his followers may be one, as Jesus and God are one.

    That is not what he said at John 10:30. Jesus said I and my Father are One. Then the Jews picked up stones to stone him again. WHY?

    "For blashpemy...You being a mere man claim to be God." - the Jews.

    Are Jesus Followers part of the Trinity too?

    Of course not, he said that they will be one. That doesn't we are the same person. The Son is not the same person as the Father either. Jesus said, I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE. I believe that. You don't seem to.

    Any decent history book will show that the Trinity is truly just another man made doctrine after the falling away.

    Well I think the bible is a decent History book. The Unity of the Father and Son was spoken of by Jesus Himself. So how it can be called a manmade doctrine would depend on the status of the bible as a manmade book.

    Paul said that with him all the fullness of the Godship dwells in body form. Col 2:9

    The Son created all that was created. Col 1:16, John 1:3

    God says that he created all things alone without help. Isa 44:24

    Thomas Calls him His God. John 20:28

    Jesus calls himself the First and the Last. Rev 1:17, 2:8

    The First and the Last calls himself The Alpha and the Omega. Rev 22:13

    The Alpha and the Omega calls himself Almighty God. Rev 1:8

    Clearly Jesus is God. Jesus says he and his Father are one.

    Those that deny his deity have a problem. In the Bible there are three things a sentient being can be. God, angel or man. Jesus existed prior to being a man and the only thing he is identifed as being is God. MANMADE DOCTRINE!!!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?! How about bible made truth.

    Even the Catholic Encyclopedia Vol XIV p.299., admits this was not a concept of the first century Christians.

    I admit that an angel Jesus was not a first Century concept so there :p I admit the Catholics don't know there own history that well. You know what was a first century concept? "I and my Father are One," John 10:30 "If you have seen me you have seen the Father."- Jesus

  • StinkyPantz
    StinkyPantz

    You two are WAY off topic. If you want to debate about the Trinity, do it in your own thread!!!!!

  • DJ
    DJ

    Whoa, easy there Stinky! I think that the reason for the topic of the trinity is because the original poster expressed his disbelief in it and that does make him a prime candidate for the jw's to sink their teeth into him until they devour him. I think that you would serve others better who believe in Christ such as John.....not to be so helpful......lol...

    I would like to say to John that the jw's seem very nice and will "love bomb" you and even play "theocratic warfare" by lieing to you while studying with them because if they told you everything that they teach/practice/believe...you'd run like the dickens. They are not to be trusted. The concept of the trinity is a big deal to them in order to try to prove thier own righteousness and find fault with and accuse Christians of idolotry. They are controlled by fear about everything and masquerade is as personal conviction. They are not allowed to disagree on anything or they are basically executed by being disfellowshipped and shunned and told that they will die at the big A. I hope that you have read the thread about the locusts of Rev 9 just for a taste of the way that they twist everything. John, you sound like person who understands our freedom in Christ Jesus and I would like to encourage you to remain that way. Stick around and do some research such as www.freeminds.org and www.ajwrb.org These sites are accurate and will not mislead you in informing you about their teachings. Stay free John, don't let the watchtower chain you into serving them in endless bondage of their lies. Love, dj

  • Joker10
    Joker10

    These are only opinions by people who dont like JW's.

  • RAYZORBLADE
    RAYZORBLADE

    Joker10, no.....I disagree.

    There are people here who love and care about JWs (some have family, friends that are). Love doesn't stop from OUR end of the deal.

    Upon reading many posts, you will read that there are many people who indeed LOVE them; it's the WTBTS and its policies that they have a problem with. Families torn apart; one of the most immediate concerns that come to mind for many participants on here, JW or not.

    That's what they dislike, and with good reason.

    If you are reading only what you wish to see; then all the anecdotes, stories, experiences, and real life law suits have made no emotional impact upon you.

    I won't say: 'keep an open mind'.

    It doesn't happen overnight. I used to be the same way.

    But it's important not to be too quick with such statements. Take some time to read some of the stories and of course: Silent Lambs - http://www.silentlambs.org. If that doesn't move you or concern you, then I'm at a loss for words.

  • John Vogel
    John Vogel

    Thanks to everyone for the reply, I wasn't sure whether this was JW or anti-JW (or ex-JW), though I did notice it seemed fairly against the Watchtower from the few threads I have read here. I was looking for answers, and I got some great answers, thanks. I could get very little information from the Watchtower website, they even said they don't do electronic correspondence, but that they would be more then happy to have somone call me or drop by. I kind of wondered why they couldn't give me any straight answers via e-mail, but based on what I've read (especially from gerards post) I have a better idea of their M.O.

    StarScream,

    I really do appreciate your POV, but at the same time I would debate with you (and most people) on the nature of Christ Jesus and the nature of the Trinity. However, I would very seriously debate with anyone who says Jesus is a "second God"... There is only one God.

    Jesus refered to himself as the Son of Man. I guess that means he was sub-human. Not. True Man from True Man, True God from True God. Son of Man/Son of God. If Son of Man = Man then True Son of God = God. You can hate it if you want to but it means you reject the True Son of God for a lesser version.

    Jesus is the Son of Man, because he was born of man and he is the Son of God because he was born of God, yes I agree with this. But Yahweh (God) is not man, nor is he the son of man (Num 23:19). Yahshua (Jesus) was/is not God (IMHO) anymore then you or I are God. But Yahshua say's that it is written "Ye are gods... he called them gods to whom the Word of God came" (John 10:33-36). So what are we to make of this? Is Jesus God? No, I say, but the Holy Spirit is OF God as Jesus is OF God, and those who are of His Spirit are of God. God is Spirit (John 4:24, 2Cor 3:17) and he dwells in man, in "him that is of a contrite and humble spirit" (Isa 57:15), such as Jesus Christ.

    John 20:28 Thomas proclaims that Jesus is not only the Lord of him but also his God. So he is truly the Son of God, therefore God the Son. So you are admitting you believe that he is a second God or not truly the Son of God.

    There is that. Doubting Thomas said to him "My Lord and my God", and Jesus said "Because you have seen me you have believed...", but did he see God? How could he have seen God? Paul write in 1John 4:12 " No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us ." and in Exodus 33:20 Yahweh God says "Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live." and in the first chapter of John vs. 18 it is written "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."

    Yet we have Jesus saying quite plainly "he that hath seen me hath seen the father" in John 14. It doesn't add up, does it? Can we see God? Is Jesus God? What of the direct quote in the scripture (and as Jesus said the scripture cannot be broken) of God saying that he is NOT man or the Son of Man?

    Jesus stated that his followers may be one, as Jesus and God are one.

    That is not what he said at John 10:30. Jesus said I and my Father are One. Then the Jews picked up stones to stone him again. WHY?

    "For blashpemy...You being a mere man claim to be God." - the Jews.

    Jesus did say "I and my father are one" he also said in the same chapter that God called those who the Word came to "gods", so how could it be blasphemous to call himself the Son of God, whom the father has sanctified and sent into the world? Further on he explained clearly what he meant by saying "I and my father are one" in John 10:38 "...ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.". Later in the book of John we have Jesus also saying:

    And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
    Joh 17:11

    And in the same chapter Jesus says:


    Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
    (Joh 17:20-23)

    Well I think the bible is a decent History book. The Unity of the Father and Son was spoken of by Jesus Himself. So how it can be called a manmade doctrine would depend on the status of the bible as a manmade book.

    Of course the bible is a manmade book, and I don't see how anyone could say otherwise. One thing I don't believe is that the bible is synonymous with "The Word of God". It might be (almost) synonymous with "scripture" but I think the Word of God goes way beyond the book(s) of the bible.

    The trinity, as far as I can see, is a man-made doctrine based for the most part on verses such as 1John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." I believe this statement in 1John 5:7 that the Word is the Holy Spirit (or ghost) and this is the Father, God. However, I don't believe that Jesus is God, that the Holy Spirit is God, and that the Father is God... The Father is God, he comes by the Holy Spirit (He is Spirit, not physical, though is exists in his own creation, to a certain extent, and reveals himself in ways other then the spiritual), and the Word IS His Spirit, which dwells in us (contrast this to the doctrine that the Word is the bible, which exists seperate from us)...

    I don't believe that Jesus Christ is the Word, but that the Word dwelt IN Jesus Christ. Jesus says "The Son can do nothing of himself (Or by himself)..."(John 5:19) and "I have not spoken of (or for) myself, but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak." (John 12:49) and in John 17:8 Jesus is praying to God and says "For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.", all of which lead me to the conclusion that the Word of God was within Jesus Christ, that by the Word of God in Jesus Christ we are saved, and that by this Word we can be one with God even as Jesus Christ is one with the Father.

    I'm still not really sure what JW believes about Jesus, but I am not so sure that it is really that far off from what I feel has been revealed to me by His Holy Spirit, by which I try to discern the truth. I don't go by man's doctrine or man's teaching, but I feel that Christ has shown us a better way, to know God through Him, through the Word which is within US, sent in His name, the Holy Spirit, by which we might know God.

  • John Vogel
    John Vogel
    RAYZORBLADE wrote:
    Upon reading many posts, you will read that there are many people who indeed LOVE them; it's the WTBTS and its policies that they have a problem with. Families torn apart; one of the most immediate concerns that come to mind for many participants on here, JW or not.

    That's what they dislike, and with good reason.

    But Jesus said that by following His Word families WILL be torn apart. He teaches that unless we hate our families and even our very lives, one cannot follow Him. Since I don't know of the policies you are speaking about, I can't really say one way or the other, but I do know that sometimes, following Jesus Christ might mean leaving the ones we love the most, to go where we are led by the Holy Spirit. I'm not comparing the WatchTower Societies policies with Jesus Christ or the Holy Spirit, but I do want to point out that if someone is speaking or making policies by the Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, The Word (Wow, that's much more then a trinity ;) then these policies MAY actually tear families apart. IMHO of course ;)

  • John Vogel
    John Vogel
    StinkyPantz wrote:
    Of course I don't believe Jesus is alive. He died 2000 years ago. As far as his teachings. . well he never wrote anything down, so everything we "know" about him is hearsay. So if you really mean that we should follow the Bible, well I don't agree with it either.

    Personally, I believe that Jesus did die, about 2000 years ago. But I also believe he arose from the dead, approx 3 days after his death, that he walked among men, and that after he ascended to the Father he returned to show himself to his doubting disciples. The ascension part, I base on his words to Mary in John 10:20. Of course you do have a point about all of this being heresay, as far as the bible goes, and I believe we should not follow the bible, but the Word within us, which guides us toward all understanding. I don't think the bible can show us God or really help us to even come close to knowing God, but that only God can help us to understand God. If we seek to know God through the bible, we are doing ourselves an injustice. I don't think we can really understand who Jesus is until we understand the Word of God, and we cannot just allow ourselves to be led to believe that "The Word of God" is the bible.

    thanks for your answers, but not exactly what I was looking for

    Sorry. What exactly were you looking for?

    More along the lines of what the JW believe, the scripture pertaining to that belief, and how this belief is any different then say, the Baptists or the Pentecostals, or whatever. Actually, I am not even sure what i was really looking for, but I think I found it, none-the-less. Not in your post, however, but more in SScreams and in Gerards posts. Though I think these are seriously biased, they are none-the-less informative opinions, based (it would seem) on their own POV concerning the WTBTS.

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