What if the Watchtower Changed ....... (page 3)

metatron

tell the hardliners a scripture

"where there is no wood, the fire goes out"

metatron

bluesapphire

This is a great thread. And a subject that has been on my mind a great deal lately.

While I agree that nothing they can say or do will UNDO all the damage they have caused, I think we should also consider that a sincere apology, accompanied by quite a few study articles with clear and explicit direction from the "FDS" would do a GREAT deal to help most ex-jws heal. And that's really why we're all here, isn't it? Because we have been hurt and we want closure, validation and healing.

NO absolutely not will it bring back those who have died. But it will prevent further deaths. NO it will not take back the child abuse some of us have suffered, but it will help us to heal from it and educate the members to not be naive and think it doesn't happen. It could help to prevent child abuse in the future.

I agree with Hilary Step that ALL religions have a history. Not only religions but even the best forms of government. We are all human and humans make mistakes. And a handful of evil humans make many many mistakes that hurt others. But does that mean that we can't change the world view for the future generations?

Just think for those of us with family members in the organization how great it would be to have them back without having to re-join.

I don't believe in force-feeding anyone ANYTHING, including religion. So as long as a study article included something to the effect that JWs should respect that others who were once JWs have a right to their own religious beliefs and that they shouldn't force them to listen to the JW blather, then it would be easy to stay away from controversial topics with JWs.

I am hoping for a similar type of arrangement with my sister who is finally coming around after more than a year of shunning me. As long as she doesn't talk to me about the JW stuff, I don't have any reason to talk to her about why I left or to show her all of the errors in what she beleives. After all, it's not like I go to my next door neighbor and talk to them about why their religion is wrong. So why should I do it to JWs?

Anyway, I think this is wishful thinking. Like Meta said, too many fractions which don't agree. But if it did happen in my lifetime, you betcha I would refrain from ridiculing to their faces. I would probably even get off this forum and move on with my life.

IslandWoman

Metatron,

tell the hardliners a scripture
"where there is no wood, the fire goes out"

Well said!

Bluesapphire,

Beautiful post, thank you.

IW

metatron

I can discern a private horror for many in the Society. Here's how it goes:

Brother Loyal , in the 'truth' for 30 years, holds lots of responsibility ...and confidential information.

One night, while home alone sick with a cold, he gets on the computer ...and secretly goes to an anti- Watchtower

site. At first he is angered, but gradually he is drawn in. He can't stop reading amidst tears flowing down his face.

In a month, he claims he is ill and stops going to meetings - and the Society loses another P.O. ... or C.O......

or City Overseer..... or missionary...... or Bethelite ...... or Hospital Liaison.

This is happening and if they aren't frightened by it, they're very foolish, indeed. This kind of sudden defection could prove

to be very costly, especially if the person involved plans to turn against them.

They need to get honest, merciful and charitable quickly. Defections once thought unthinkable aren't unthinkable any more.

metatron

hillary_step

BlueSapphire,

A first class post. Many thanks.

HS

NeonMadman

Let us also say that some hardliners at Bethel are loathe to allow "apostates" to freely mingle with the "sheep" in the congregations, while more moderate brothers are willing to risk problems in favor of allowing more loving practices in the KH.

Well, they won't have to worry about this apostate trashing their beliefs at the Kingdom Hall; I wouldn't go back there, no matter how many changes they made. If they knock at my door, they're fair game. I believe that their doctrines are incorrect, and wouldn't hesitate to make an issue of it with them, as I do with Mormons or any other cultists I get the chance to talk to.

What the changes you describe would do, however, is remove some of the passion from the debate. If people were not being harmed, if families were not being broken up, if lives were not being destroyed, then the debate would be only theological in nature. As such, the urgent need to convince the other person of his error right now, lest he suffer physical or emotional harm from the organization's teachings, would be greatly lessened.

IslandWoman

NeonMadman,

If people were not being harmed, if families were not being broken up, if lives were not being destroyed, then the debate would be only theological in nature. As such, the urgent need to convince the other person of his error right now, lest he suffer physical or emotional harm from the organization's teachings, would be greatly lessened.

True! This is why the more radical factions of the exJWs would do whatever they can to throw a wrench into any reform movement in the Watchtower. I'm not talking fantasy here. Some exJWs want only one thing, the destruction of the Watchtower and they will work towards that end no matter what the cost.

My experience with one of them has proven that.

IW

jws

Like others said, the issues you presented are not the whole picture. There are many doctrinal lies and twists they are guilty of. And there is a lot of behavioral conventions that are none too healthy either. Overall, those steps would make them a lot more mainstream. Sure, they would still have their idiotic beliefs about Bible interpretation, but so do other groups like Mormons, Catholics, etc.

Fact is, I have a problem with most of the beliefs of organized religion. If I knew more about those beliefs, I'd be able to ridicule them too. I just happen to know more about JWs because I was one for over 20 years. And while I respect people's right to believe what they will, for the most part, I don't ridicule them or put them down to their face. I may speak of how dumb some religious belief is, but in general, when speaking to a believer, I'm not going to try to make them feel dumb for believing what they do.

On the other hand, when somebody engages me, and tries to push that belief down my throat, then I am going to come out and point out how dumb their belief is. And, unlike most religions, JWs are trying to do that. My JW family members try to do it. They come to my door trying to do it.

For me, they not only need to clean up their extremist practices, but stop their preaching work. And, they'd need to stop giving off that elitist vibe that they have the one true faith and all other forms are invalid. They need to be accepting that more than one religion can lead to God. If they do those things, then I can accept them on equal footing with all the other religions out there.

bluesapphire

True! This is why the more radical factions of the exJWs would do whatever they can to throw a wrench into any reform movement in the Watchtower. I'm not talking fantasy here. Some exJWs want only one thing, the destruction of the Watchtower and they will work towards that end no matter what the cost.

Yes that's true. But there are also radical JWs. Anyway, if something like this actually DOES EVER HAPPEN, those radical exes would lose momentum. Who cares if someone wants to "throw a wrench" into any reform IF the reform is said and DONE?

I think they would look very foolish.

Religions survive on their own merits. If the Watchtower crumbles because of the dominoe effect, well then who can save them? They couldn't even save themselves.

But if they want to have any chance of survival, they have no choice but to reform. Otherwise they have no chance, nothing to pass on to the next generation because their numbers will continue to dwindle and the exes numbers will continue to grow. And the anger many of us have will continue to fester.

The way I see it is they have ONE chance for survival and that is reform. It's not a guarantee they will survive. It's just their only chance.

bluesapphire

And, they'd need to stop giving off that elitist vibe that they have the one true faith and all other forms are invalid.

That vibe sure is obnoxious but JWs are not alone in having it. Maybe eventually most of the ex-jws would get used to dealing with the obnoxious elitist vibe in the same manner as we deal with other elitist groups -- ignoring them. And that would be a win-win situation.

What if the Watchtower Changed .......

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