DannyBear,
The changes you and others have suggested would literally destroy the 'brotherhood'.
No, to the contrary it will free the brotherhood. Their "core" beliefs will remain intact.
IW
What if the Watchtower Changed .......
by IslandWoman 69 Replies latest jw friends
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IslandWoman
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blondie
What are those "core" beliefs, IW? I don't want to assume anything here. (Pardon me if they were previously stated, I looked by did not see)
Blondie
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nowisee
does your initial question imply that jws will stop preaching?
if they continue to preach and initiate any dialogue about "their dogma", how could they expect that others would not respond with questions or point out doctrinal error?
i am not talking about ridiculing their teaching, but simple questioning, which historically they have not handled well.
after reading this whole thread it seems apparent that the wts is in a bind that it cannot solve. it seems most likely that it has sown the seeds of its own destruction. i do not gloat over this; i think it is terribly sad for individual jws who have sincerely been misled and have believed that they were serving god.
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IslandWoman
The "core" beliefs would be anything outside of the blood issue, the shunning practice, and the practice of handling accusations of criminal behavior within the Org.
No, JWs would not stop preaching.
IW
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Pork Chop
Island Woman I believe that the vast majority of exJWs would respond very positively to the changes you mention, as well as the many, many within the Organization that have real problems with the way things are today. I doubt the response on this board would be indicative of that but this board tends to be composed largely of the more radical end of the exJW spectrum and radicals typically will only countenance the complete destruction of whatever they're opposed to, they will also never cease to come up with new demands whenever any of their old ones are met. Bolsheviks revisited.
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DannyBear
IW,
They have abandoned very few real 'core' beliefs. Kicking and screaming they admit to shades of error regarding 1914, 1975, and other tenants like 'abstenance from blood', yet either thru manipulation of scripture, or simple backpedaling via the convenient 'new light', they stick to thier guns.
Why? Because if they renege on the practice of shunning, just how will they 'keep the congregation clean'? What discipline could they administer for those who verbalise and promote an alternative view of doctrine, let alone violate god's laws or perform any number of 'pornia' or deviations, they so much like to rant about. Shunning is the basis, the foundation, of being and continuing to be a jw. Remember shunning is all encompasing it also is the basis for thier wierd idea about 'marking' individuals and whole families within the congregations.
IW you can't surgically remove shunning or any select egregious practice, and end up with a reciepe for continued fanatical preach at all costs.....jw's are know for.
Take away those critical tools, the machine will fizzel to a halt. Nothing left to keep the troops in line.
Danny
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Lady Lee
would exJWs respect their dogma and refrain from putting down their religious beliefs to their faces?
As long as their primary mission is to "preach the "good news'" they I can't see how we could co-exist without confrontation.
Scenario 1:
Brother and sister Elder go for a visit to see their ex-JW children and granchildren. Brother and Sister Elder truly believe that they are responsible to bring the exes back to the fold before time runs out. Brother and Sister Elder see holiday celebrations and what they consider to be pagan and therefore Satanic materials in the exes home. They feel compelled to tell their children of their fears for them.
Scenario 2:
Brother and Sister Elder volunteer to take care of the grandchilren while the parents work. While at the grandparents home Brother and Sister Elder believe it is their God-given responsibility to teach their message to the grandchildren even going so far as to warn the grandchildren not to discuss what they read "It is their special secret".
Scenario 3:
Brother Elder is called to the hospital because his youngest non-JW son has been in an auto accident and requires blood. The doctors are asking permission. Brother Elder has been a JW his whole life and has firmly believed in the rules about blood that have been taught to him during his life. Although he is aware that he will not be sanctioned for signing the papers allowing his son to receive blood in his heart he feels this is wrong and that the society has made an error or he has misunderstood. The Bible that he knows and follows says Abstain and he will abstain.
Scenario 4:
Brother and Sister Elder go to visit their ex-JW daughter and find that she has a copy of Crisis of Conscience on her coffee table. They question her about it and she offers to lend it to them. They take it home and begin reading. And they go back telling her it is all lies
In each of these scenarios there will be conflict either between the family members. So much of how exes live goes against the beliefs of JW. Simple things like the TV programs we watch, holidays, the way we speak, our beliefs (apart from theirs), work we do, our general lifestyles.
Either JWs will be lured away (not a bad thing) or the shunning will continue on some level.
Too many of us have access to the lies and cover-ups, to the history, to the flip-flops, the scandals for the WTS to risk letting the R&F get too close to us
Well unless they are going mainstream and really won't be JWs anymore
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AlanF
Many excellent posts here! I particularly liked those from Nosferatu, Bluesapphire and Neonmadman.
Your question is one I've considered long and hard, IslandWoman. I would quit working against the Watchtower if they gave up The Fundamental Doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses:
The Governing Body exclusively speaks for God and is to be followed as God.
If this is changed, a number of vile policies and teachings would automatically change along with it:
1) No disfellowshipping for simple doctrinal disagreements.
2) No punishing of abuse victims.
3) Honesty in scholarship and every other area would tend to reign.
The lack of disfellowshipping for simple doctrinal disagreements would accomplish a great deal:
1) No shunning of family members merely because someone changes his or her beliefs. This would reduce the anger of the ex-JW community hugely.
2) No shunning over the blood issue.
How could the Watchtower prove that it changed these policies? It would have to issue a series of honest, straightforward articles -- not written in the usual doubletongued style -- explaining what was being changed, why it was being changed, and what was wrong with previous teachings. It would have to reinstate the large majority of those disfellowshipped for "apostasy" and plenty of others besides. It would have to make restitution and a sincere apology to abuse victims it and its agents have further abused. It would have to remove a number of thoroughly dishonest publications from circulation and explain why it was doing it. It would have to apologize and make restitution to all those damaged by the blood doctrine. It would have to take positive action to reunite families split apart by all of the above abusive teachings and policies. By positive action I mean that it would have to act on the wishes of anyone now shunned by family members and explain the the ones doing the shunning why the Watchtower was wrong to teach them to shun. It would have to kick out of leadership positions anyone who is now in the "hardliners" camp. It would have to remove from positions of responsibility all officials who set the above abusive policies. It would have to remove all abusive elders, including congregation elders, Circuit and District Overseers, and a number of Governing Body members. Finally, it would have to issue a clear doctrine explaining that neither the Governing Body nor any other Watchtower officials are now or ever were "God's spokesmen". In short, the Watchtower Society would have to become an honest, kinder and gentler religion interested in human beings rather than in making the leadership look good before God so as to get that heavenly reward of being "kings and priests forever".
I have no doubt that in the long run, all of the above will be done. If it is not done, the Watchtower will gradually go out of existence, and I think that plenty of Bethelites know it and want their organization to continue. It would be far better for JWs and concerned ex-JWs alike for Watchtower officials to bite the bullet right now and do what they know is right. Yes, they will lose a lot of face and money. But if they really believe they're true Christians, they'll step up to the plate.
The Society was progressing somewhat along the above lines until the 9/11 disaster along with the massive negative publicity brought on by Silentlambs. This was along the lines of the way the Chinese government was lightening up until Tianenmen Square, which allowed hardliners to discredit liberals and take over and set the country back by a decade or more. However, I think that the Chinese hardliners learned something from it, and so did the liberals. I think that something similar could be happening within Watchtower, except that they don't have the resources of China, and so the leaders ought to know that the many lawsuits that they will lose over the next decade will break them if they don't do something positive beginning right now. The negative publicity against the JW organization has barely gotten started, and once it reaches a critical threshold a feeding frenzy will begin. Watchtower still can save itself, but only by humbling itself. This is a lesson that present arrogant JW leaders may or may not learn before they die -- he who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted. AlanF
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IslandWoman
DannyBear,
Because if they renege on the practice of shunning, just how will they 'keep the congregation clean'?
By conscience instead of rule.
What discipline could they administer for those who verbalise and promote an alternative view of doctrine, let alone violate god's laws or perform any number of 'pornia' or deviations, they so much like to rant about.
The Apostle Paul set the pattern. It is his pattern of tolerance and temporary castigation which must be followed. The whole effort is to help not to punish.
As for the removal of destructive policies, yes, it is possible.
IW
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Pork Chop
Good stuff AlanF, you're a complicated guy.